Do you run your tiller at pto speed?

[Reg]

I don't think anyone implied that the implement would crumble.

But with that said........there are a lot of new people coming in here on an hourly basis, and if they don't understand the ramifications of lugging a diesel engine...........they can do just that by running the attachment at lower than 540 rpm's. Thus blowing the engine up on that expensive tractor they just bought. And not to mention the fact that the tillers that I have used have done a much better job at high rpm's as opposed to low.

THAT is a delusion that a lot of the newcomers you refer to are under.
Running a diesel SLOW doesn't mean that it is LUGGING.
This idea may be new to you, but it is only "Lugging" when it is under too much load, regardless of the speed.
If someone is running at a low PTO speed to keep their ground speed down and need to do that because they are running in too high a gear (or hydro range) - that is a different issue (/knowledge gap).

If you want some GOOD examples of this consider how most diesel engines operate in anything BUT ground engaging applications.
Tractor diesel engines aren't THAT different to marine and truck diesels, which typically operate WAY below their max revs for a very high percentage of their operating hours without "blowing up".
The general recommendation for marine diesels is to run them at 60% of their maximum rated speed when under way, automotive diesels spend MANY hours idling in traffic, etc.

I can't imagine a shrimp boater coming into dock at full power JUST to "save his engine".
600 RPM, less if it will idle down below that and there will be bump loads on it as it goes reverse/forward forward/reverse on opposite screws to side slide in.
BTW It isn't going in and out of the channel at full revs either (-:

So, you may want to dump this notion that low speed operation is "bad" for diesel engines, or that they will "blow up".
At least divorce low speed operation from lugging.

 

[Bird]

I take the 540 to be the MAXIMUM rated speed and as with most things mechanical, they likely wear a little less if run a little slower.

I don't think so. I think the 540 is for the most efficient operation.

Generally speaking, the 540 is best for both the tiller and the tractor, but of course there are always exceptions to every rule. I always ran my tiller at 540, but I had no rocks in my area, as I did the rotary cutter and the finish mower. Have you ever seen a real farmer run a hay cutter or hay baler at lower speeds? If I were concerned about hitting rocks, I'd probably slow my forward motion speed rather than slow the PTO speed.

But yes, you won't hurt the engine running it slower IF you don't lug the engine. But if I were buying a used tractor and found the prior owner liked to run his implements slower, I'd probably pass on that tractor because it's probably been abused (I didn't say it definitely had been abused; only probably abused) by an operator who didn't know any better.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I run mine as fast as I have power for. About 750 RPM at a guess. It breaks up the soil better when run faster.
larry

You got me wondering how you could even get it that high.

Reduced engine speed on the hi pto speed [1000] setting. If I have trouble with the engine bogging I reduce ground speed or go to 540pto and full engine speed. ... The L3450 holds up fairly well @ HPTO with the 5' KK.
larry

 

[Reg]

I don't think so. I think the 540 is for the most efficient operation.

Generally speaking, the 540 is best for both the tiller and the tractor, but of course there are always exceptions to every rule. I always ran my tiller at 540, but I had no rocks in my area, as I did the rotary cutter and the finish mower. Have you ever seen a real farmer run a hay cutter or hay baler at lower speeds? If I were concerned about hitting rocks, I'd probably slow my forward motion speed rather than slow the PTO speed.

But yes, you won't hurt the engine running it slower IF you don't lug the engine. But if I were buying a used tractor and found the prior owner liked to run his implements slower, I'd probably pass on that tractor because it's probably been abused (I didn't say it definitely had been abused; only probably abused) by an operator who didn't know any better.

I think we may need to go back and read the manuals that came with the implements, or read them for the first time.
Do they say AT 540 or AT NO MORE THAN 540 ?
Without manuals in front of me, my recollection is that most of them said that 540 is the MAXIMUM SAFE SPEED at which they should be operated.
There MAY BE some that warn against slow speed operation, but I don't recall any.
Mowers depend on speed for a good cut, I don't think tillers do, though the patch may look a little better if the soil is thrown a bit higher (-:

Running into rocks around baseball size is going to hurt your tiller much more as a function of tine speed than ground speed.

Again, in fresh ground I slow way down, both ground speed and tine speed.
Cleared, "known rock free" ground is different - though in New England we grow a fresh crop every Spring, so even after 30 years of continuous tilling the frost still brings 'em up.

Yes, "real" farmers (whatever distinguishes them from "unreal" farmers) often run their equipment at or above max recommended speed, they have limited time in which to get the work done that needs to be done.
They (and/or their help) will sacrifice equipment to save a crop, or get done before a storm, or dark.
I don't take that as an indicator that their equipment will last longer as a consequence of being run flat out, quite the reverse.
Hobby farmers, part timers, old duffers wanting seat time, can slow down and smell the good earth (-:
Many (perhaps most) of US are not running on any sort of efficiency meter.
If I get done with a task by 11 am vs noon, doesn't much matter (to ME, most of the time).

 

[PLUMMER]

In the Howard manual its states " the drive is by a pto from a 540 rpm tractor pto" Nowhere does it state max "anything" or minumum "anything" speed. At 540 pto the tiller spins at 230. It only goes into problems with tilth quality and suggested fixes/causes. 15-20 HP not required but RECOMMENDED. So I believe its all about experience by the user. Common sense should lead your way. I guess for me with 4 speeds I have limited options and 28hp I would have to have 540 rpm in order to maintain momentum from stalling the gas engine. If you can pull it and have good till results without going out of YOUR rpm range then its all good. Whether that be 300 rpm or 540.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

WHAT IS LUGGING?

See numerous comments about lugging the engine and was wondering what YOUR definition of lugging is?

Mine is, if when you advance the throttle and there is no resulting increase in engine RPM, then you are over loading, i.e. lugging the engine.

If I have the engine under load @ 1500 RPM and I advance the throttle and engine speeds up, not lugging. If I have the engine under load @ 2000 RPM and advance the throttle and engine doesn't increase in speed, then I'm overloading the engine, lugging it.

 

[jenkinsph]

I am with Reg on this one. Full speed isn't needed all the time. Lugging the motor should always be avoided, some people overwork the little tractors working them at full speed and are still lugging the motors.

No substitute for some common sense.

 

[Reg]

WHAT IS LUGGING?

See numerous comments about lugging the engine and was wondering what YOUR definition of lugging is?

Mine is, if when you advance the throttle and there is no resulting increase in engine RPM, then you are over loading, i.e. lugging the engine.

If I have the engine under load @ 1500 RPM and I advance the throttle and engine speeds up, not lugging. If I have the engine under load @ 2000 RPM and advance the throttle and engine doesn't increase in speed, then I'm overloading the engine, lugging it.

Like art & music, it is SOMEWHAT subjective, i.e. I may not be able to DEFINE it accurately, but I know when it is there (& when it is not).
Not to wander off on this analogy, but one person's music may be noise to others (-:

ONE indicator is a significant drop in revs while on a set engine speed and black smoke, e.g. when you run into a hard patch of clay in the middle of a field that is mostly sandy loam.
The governor is unable to keep the engine revs up, so it bogs down.
The choice at that point is to reduce engine speed, to reduce depth, or to select a lower gear - it REALLY depends on some application of experience and common sense.

Lets see if this helps;
On a road trip with a trailer, maybe with the tractor on the trailer, cruising the interstate at 65 or so.
The road starts up a grade, maybe you increase the weight on the pedal, but it still slows down.
You MIGHT make it over the top in the same gear, but according to the exact conditions you may decide to downshift or to back off the pedal - perhaps so that it doesn't downshift if automatic.
I will not argue that any ONE of these alternatives is always or even usually better than any other of them.
This is a real time decision and it varies according to conditions.
Tilling isn't THAT much different, the hard spots are somewhat analogous to steep grades, sometimes you do one thing, sometimes another.

There is still the issue with tillers specifically of deciding whether to hit obstacles with rotating parts at maximum speed or at some speed less than that.
This isn't JUST about loving care for the diesel, to me it is about reducing risk of damage due to rock swallowing.

Yes, I often run 540 implements on the 1,000 output at 1/2 or fewer RPM.
This is OK as long as the tractor doesn't bog down, I can usually find a gear low enough that it doesn't, if it shows signs of loading I go to the 540 output - no drama.
This is also very much like having a choice in a truck, you can go to tow/haul mode if heavily loaded, or take that off if cruising flat lands.
O/D lockout is similar, you don't ALWAYS use it just because you have a trailer on.

 

[PLUMMER]

So these definitions/descriptions pretty much sound like a little use of common sense and experience can avoid these situations. On the 8N it has a draft control that I recently learned about that senses hydro load and will automatically lift the implement to reduce load and lower it as it returns to its initial load setting. If I understand that correctly

 

[Reg]

So these definitions/descriptions pretty much sound like a little use of common sense and experience can avoid these situations. On the 8N it has a draft control that I recently learned about that senses hydro load and will automatically lift the implement to reduce load and lower it as it returns to its initial load setting. If I understand that correctly

Yep, you understand that correctly, though it is unlikely to cut in with a tiller, much more likely with a plough.

What draft controls usually sense is a reaction in the top link.
It goes about like this;
The plough is down in the ground, below the ends of the lift arms (obviously).
For the moment regard the ends of the lift arms as a pivot point.
When the plough encounters a hard spot the lift arms continue to do their job of pulling and the frame of the plough TENDS TO tip forwards - kinda/sorta.
This causes a compressive force on the top link, which presses through it's mounting point and a linkage (of some sort, it varies slightly by tractor) to operate the position control and lift the plough.
When the hard spot is passed, or the plough lifts clear of it, the reactive force drops, the position control valve allows return to the previous depth, etc.
You can usually adjust the sensitivity by locating the tractor end of the top link in a different hole on its mount.
You want it to operate, but you don't want it jumping out of the ground every 10ft (-:
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Here's another thought on running CUTS at or near their max power revs.
It is pretty close to red-line, I don't run gas or diesel vehicles anywhere NEAR to red-line.
I think it is unwise from a wear 'n tear, efficiency, economy & just about every other POV.
I can NOT see how running a truck at near red line "JUST to keep it happy and in its power band" would ever make sense.
Would I have to keep it in first gear through town JUST to keep the revs up, for the engine's sake ?
I don't think so (-:

YMMV - and almost certainly does.