Dodge diesels-- Is this a secret ???

[Farmwithjunk]

Farmwithjunk vbmenu_register("postmenu_944861", true);
I already feelike a goofball without you having to rub it in anymore ok?

There's a difference between verbal abuse and FRIENDLY verbal abuse

Here, you can get BOTH kinds. Trick is, figuring out which is which.

(Mine is friendly. You'd know in a New York minute if it wasn't)

p.s. I don't think that was a silly question.Best way to learn something new is to ask questions. (Also, hold chicken with left hand.)

 

[Nat]

THS, one reason someone would want a chip is to stop it from shifting fron OD to drive and then right back which mine does if pulling my RV.
The old tired line about negating the warrenty has been hashed and rehashed on a dozen different boards and I've never heard anyone say that the dealer voided the warrenty because of a chip. I know that uncle John works with someone who knows someone who had a chip and the dealer wouldn't replace a battery because of the chip, but no-one that I've ever heard has had a warrenty voided because of it.
I'm not trying to start an arguement, but that has been beat to death. If the dealer wants to void a warrenty they can ask for proof that the service manuel has been followed completly and very few could prove it. Later, Nat

 

[THS]

Nat,

The mere presence of a cheater box will not void the warranty. I could care less if a truck comes in the door with one on. Truth be told, if a customer has one on and it never causes anything to break, then we don't have a problem. It's not like we call Chrysler to rat on a customer because we spotted a cheater box.

However, if a customer comes in my shop with a faulty injector pump for instance, I can't just order a new pump. I've got to make a call to our tech hotline, manned by people from Cummins. They will ask lots of question, and we won't lie. I'm surely not going to risk being charged back fom Chrysler because a part showed signs of being damaged by modifications, and by this time, the customer is already long gone down the road.

I'm also not trying to start an arguement either. I'm giving the dealer's point of view. And for the record, I've been in a truck with a Bully Dog box installed, and it would embarrass most sports cars off the line. It really is too bad that those Cummins engines are so detuned from the factory.

 

[HGM]

THS, one reason someone would want a chip is to stop it from shifting fron OD to drive and then right back which mine does if pulling my RV.
The old tired line about negating the warrenty has been hashed and rehashed on a dozen different boards and I've never heard anyone say that the dealer voided the warrenty because of a chip. I know that uncle John works with someone who knows someone who had a chip and the dealer wouldn't replace a battery because of the chip, but no-one that I've ever heard has had a warrenty voided because of it.
I'm not trying to start an arguement, but that has been beat to death. If the dealer wants to void a warrenty they can ask for proof that the service manuel has been followed completly and very few could prove it. Later, Nat

There's no doubt that a chip/programer will be useful in some instances.. As for the "voided" warranty, well it really depends.. It does happen, I have been involved in it happening... The key to the whole process is, did it cause the failure?? There is more to vehicle warranty than just the drivetrain, theres also more to the drivetrain than the engine, trans,and rear end(subsystems).. You could have a chiped truck with 100hp more than stock, take it to the dealer with a leaking water pump and it should be covered.. But if you were to take that same truck to the dealer and a rod was hanging out of the block, your chip will be questioned.. The process becomes more of an investigation at that point. The leagal end gets a bit sticky, and can vary greatly depending on where you live and how the judge looks at the information presented to him(if it goes that far).. If you are the type of person who refuses to take responsibility for his own actions and denies that the chip caused the problem, you may be able to fight it in court and win. If you are a realistic honorable person, when you are told that your chip, that you installed specificly to add more fuel, change the injection timing, create more turbo boost, change shift points, etc.. or that K&N filter you had to have, dusted the engine, you should be inclined to accept the thruth and say "well, ok I guess it really cannot handle that" and go on with paying the bill.. Unfortunatly, our entitlement society creates more people saying "forget the dealer/mfg, I'm not paying for nothing" wich causes higher sales prices in the long run to cover rediculous warranty expences from previous years..

With that being said, I have no problem with a good quality chip/programer, installed by someone experienced with the product and capable of dyno tuning it.. Personally, I like the lower power programers, simply because they get rid of some of the annoying things like poor throttle responce(perceived as turbo lag).. The fuel economy may actually increase due to more efficient fuel timing concerns that the factory was not allowed to used because of some CAFE criteria.. My point it, there is allot more to this topic than just the dealer trying to screw you..

 

[THS]

Well said Greg!

I would say I'm MORE than forgiving when it comes to questionable warranty judgement calls. It's gotta be plain as day before I would call my district manager for a possible vehicle abuse claim. The last time I did that, the customer called the state consumer protection dept on us for refusing to honor the warranty he thought he was entitled to. The truck was towed into us, he said it wouldn't move. He said the driveshaft "fell out". Ok, I've never heard that one before. So I took a walk out to the truck. It was a mid 90's Dodge Dakota still under the factory warranty. But I could see that the truck was sitting funny. The left top corner of the box had contacted the cab. Actually, it had contacted hard enough to put a 3" deep dent in the cab. If any of you have a Dakota in that year, you'll know that there's about a 2" gap on a normal truck between the cab and box. Add 3" to that figure. So 5" of total movement. He wouldn't tell me how that happened. But he did want it totally covered under warranty.

This was before the days of digital imaging, so I had to call my district manager. He agreed that this truck had been operated beyond the intended usage and was going to deny the guy any coverage for repairs that it was in for. So the guy called the state. The state sent an inspector to look at the truck and to review the files with me. He laughed once he saw the truck. He agreed with our findings, he allowed Chrysler to decline repairing it under warranty. The owner was FURIOUS! He said he drove it normally, and this was a defective truck. He said if Chrysler did not warranty the repairs, he was going to abandon it. And abandon it he did..... I'll have to look for the polaroids I took of his truck one of these days. I'm pretty sure I saved them. I l'll see if any of you agree with me.

 

[Nat]

Both you fellows said what I meant. I know how some people want the warranty to cover anything.
I sold and installed swimming pools for 20 years and some of the stuff people can come up with is mind boggling. One guy came in and wanted me to replace his 4 year old liner because a neighborhood kid got mad because he couldn't use the pool and cut the liner from as far as he could reach down to the pool deck. Homeowner couldn't figure out why the manufactor wouldn't warrenty it " cause it has a 10 year warranty"
I drive a truck like I just paid 35,000 bucks for it. I don't need to spin my expensive tires, and don't want to go fast, notice on the origonal post I said the cruise was set on 68, and it is a 70 MPH limit. The main thing the chip will do for me is to stop the up/down shifting when I hit a slight hill. It came from the factory with 325 HP and 600 lbs of torque and that is a bunch except for the fact that the truck turns about 18/1900 rpm's at 68 mph and the power is considerably less in that range, so adding a chip will not increase the HP or torque where I drive it over what it will do if I didn't mind putting my foot in it which I don't care to do.
I stopped this morning at a place that specializes it diesel performance and asked about what brand chip they sold. They recoment the Edge Attitude because it limits the HP if it senses the EGT going over the Cummins specs, and also limits it if it senses any trans slippage.
The funny part about it is most dealers recomend not using a chip if the load approches max CVWR. My CVWR is 23000, and my actual load is around 19000, so well under the gross, but some chip manufactors recomend not using it if max is 70 percent of GVWR. Now why would anyone want a chip if not for towing? Later, Nat

 

[scesnick]

My Dodge is a 6 speed so i don't really worry about the OD shift. The way I understand it is that some chips will raise the rail pressure and that is not really a good thing, and some will just advance the fuel timing ( no rail pressure increase)

I got my Edge Juice for fuel milage. I also added the AFE stage one air system and then removed the muffler with a muffler delete system. I also removed the silencer ring and the baffles in the intake tube. It runs great and I get alot better mileage. (21 MPG highway) and it only has 12,000 miles on it so I am expecting even better mileage in the future.
Another advantage the Edge Juice has is the Attitude Monitor. It allows me to set EGT temps and will defuel if I reach those parameters. It also has all the guages needed for a diesel truck all built right into the system.

 

[RobertN]

The left top corner of the box had contacted the cab. Actually, it had contacted hard enough to put a 3" deep dent in the cab. If any of you have a Dakota in that year, you'll know that there's about a 2" gap on a normal truck between the cab and box. Add 3" to that figure. So 5" of total movement. He wouldn't tell me how that happened.

He jumped it!

My brother did that some years back, right after he got his license. He had our Dad's beat up '76 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4. He was unexpierienced, going way too fast showing off for a buddy on a dirt road. The tail came around, and he went up a short enbankment on the roadside. Launched him airborn, about 12' in the air. No matter what they show on Dukes of Hazzard, most times cars nose in after a jump, especially if they came off a steep ramp. Funny how the weight distribution has a lot more weight up front than in the rear.

The were dents in the cab where the bed hit as the frame flexed. It bent the radiator support. Both mufflers got knocked loose. Broke the motor mounts. That's the stuff I remember; there was more... Drove it normal... LOL ;-)

 

[THS]

Well, we knew what he did to create dents like that. We just wanted him to spill his guts. Kinda like when a cop pulls you over and asks "do you know why I pulled you over?" You probably have a good idea what you were doing but you'd be a fool to admit to it. Especially since it may lower your chances of getting the charges dropped or reduced since you admitted to knowing you were breaking the law.

I tried to find those pics today of that truck. I can't put my hands on it. It DID happen probably 8 or 9 years ago though. But I'll admit I'm a packrat.

 

[InlineDieselFan]

Now that this has turned into a yes/no more power discussion, there are many ways the 'chips' up the power, but there are also some downsides when you up the power. EGT's (exhaust gas temperatures), certainly can rise so you should put in a EGT gauge, lesson some of this with a new bigger better turbo and a bigger exhuast pipe. If you have an automatic transmission, depeneding on how much power you add you may be buying a new, or repairingand upgrading your trans. If you have a stick shift you will most likely be buying a new clutch soon.

Just some food for thought, and it does not matter Dodge, Ford or GM.

steve