Does gas really go bad?

[Jstpssng]

Just my own experience... I've never had a fuel problem with "old" gasoline. I only use 87 octane 10% ethanol. I've been using that since the 80's. It's the fuel that's recommended by all of my engine manufacturers, so that's what I use. I've had one (1) fuel line go mushy on a chainsaw. I'm told it was ethanol related, but no one can confirm that. Most of my engines get used regularly, but things like the log splitter can sit for a year or more. Never a fuel problem. Our first tractor was a mid 70s IH2500b with a gas engine. It would sit all winter out on our remote property. I'd check the glass water bowl under the fuel tank and never found water in the tank in the 10 years we owned it.

There's all kinds of stories about old gas, ethanol, etc... I don't doubt people have problems with it. I guess I've just been lucky.

I guess that I've been lucky, we've only had it since around 2008. I bought a new Echo chainsaw that year, and the warranty clearly stated that it was voided if I ran gas with ethanol in it.

Gas definitely does go bad, but older engines were less susceptible to problems. I was snow blowing my driveway years ago in my pre-Kubota days and ran out of fuel. Rather than running to the store I noticed the gallon jug of last year's gas, with a little water which I has set aside until I decided what to do with it. The water was frozen, the gas even smelled stale but I dumped it in that old '70s vintage B&S engine, and gave it a tug. It didn't like the old gas and ran mean, but I was able to finish my driveway without going for more fuel.

 

[ericm979]

Older engines also had carburetors that metered poorly and were jetted rich. One reason why 15 mpg was considered good for an American car in the '60s. Be around running old restored muscle cars and you can smell the raw gas in the exhaust.

Being so rich made them easier to start on stale gas with many of the volatiles evaporated.

I've cleaned out a bunch of motorcycle gas tanks and carbs with stale gas. The absolute worst was a Honda 305 Superhawk for my wife where the gas had solidified into gummy goo with an incredibly persistent stench. The garage smelled of that for years.

 

[5030]

Best way I've found to clean gunked up carbs (from phase separated E- gas) is a heated ultrasonic parts washer filled with the carb and parts cleaner (in gallon cans) you can buy at a discount auto parts store like Berrymans Chem Tool or Gunk. 30 minutes in the parts washer at 140 degrees cleans them like new and gets rid of all the crap.

Don't worry Mossy, you'll get your turn in the stale gunked up e-gas merry go around at some point, your odds are gettin worse by the season.

My chainsaws and brush trimmer / cutter always what we call RV gas here. No corn alky, just premium unleaded.

 

[ultrarunner]

I wonder if the tank had been sealed with a sloshing solution... I cured many fuel issues in antiques with tank sealer BUT ethanol turns the sealer to goo... what a mess!

 

[5030]

Gasoline fuels are a time and temp sensitive commodity and are not made for long term storage. They run down pipelines without oxygen until they reach our tanks or cans. Oxygen cross links with it and it changes into something our engines and fuel systems do not like. Heat makes this process happen faster, same as most chemical reactions. All our temporary use engine fuels here has some Seafoam mixed in them to keep this process from happening. Seafoam is much cheaper than cleaning a fuel sytem out.

I used to work in a marine where cleaning out bad fuel was 70% of our work. Note how I didn't mention alcohol. Long live seafoam!

Arly.. Lets change up the subject a bit without starting a new thread seeing as you like Seafoam (so do I actually)...

I own 2 GDI engines pre pilot injector nozzle ones (where the intake tract is always dry) and I use Seafoam Top End cleaner sprayed directly into the throttle bodies every oil change (6000 miles) per the directions on the can. So far 60K miles plus, my engines seem to run fine and get excellent fuel mileage. I wonder if you or anyone else uses it. I read CRC also has a cleaner for GDI engines but I've never tried it, only the Seafoam ands I will say, using it per the directions and allowing the hot engine to 'heat soak' as they instruct, starting it back up after 15 minutes, when you take the vehicle on the road and hammer on it, it's a fog coming out the tailpipe, smokes the neighborhood up. It does give me a check engine light (rich condition on the lead O2 sensor) but I just go in and clear the code and all is well again.

Any experience with the Seafoam GDI top end cleaner or the CRC stuff?

Lots of You Tube vids but no one I know of uses it.

 

[ArlyA]

Arly.. Lets change up the subject a bit without starting a new thread seeing as you like Seafoam (so do I actually)...
Any experience with the Seafoam GDI top end cleaner or the CRC stuff?
Lots of You Tube vids but no one I know of uses it.

We only use sea foam as a fuel stabilizer. There are other chemicals out there that are a better cleaners.

 

[MossRoad]

I guess that I've been lucky, we've only had it since around 2008. I bought a new Echo chainsaw that year, and the warranty clearly stated that it was voided if I ran gas with ethanol in it.

Gas definitely does go bad, but older engines were less susceptible to problems. I was snow blowing my driveway years ago in my pre-Kubota days and ran out of fuel. Rather than running to the store I noticed the gallon jug of last year's gas, with a little water which I has set aside until I decided what to do with it. The water was frozen, the gas even smelled stale but I dumped it in that old '70s vintage B&S engine, and gave it a tug. It didn't like the old gas and ran mean, but I was able to finish my driveway without going for more fuel.

Every piece of Echo power equipment that I've dealt with has said it is approved for 10% ethanol, but gives warnings and suggestions on how to maintain and store the equipment and the fuel if you use ethanol, and what octane to use.

Which brings me to the point that I really believe most fuel related problems in power equipment is from people (not you and me, of course ) not following manufacturers instructions, storing fuel in containers with open vents, etc...

 

[MossRoad]

Arly.. Lets change up the subject a bit without starting a new thread seeing as you like Seafoam (so do I actually)...

I own 2 GDI engines pre pilot injector nozzle ones (where the intake tract is always dry) and I use Seafoam Top End cleaner sprayed directly into the throttle bodies every oil change (6000 miles) per the directions on the can. So far 60K miles plus, my engines seem to run fine and get excellent fuel mileage. I wonder if you or anyone else uses it. I read CRC also has a cleaner for GDI engines but I've never tried it, only the Seafoam ands I will say, using it per the directions and allowing the hot engine to 'heat soak' as they instruct, starting it back up after 15 minutes, when you take the vehicle on the road and hammer on it, it's a fog coming out the tailpipe, smokes the neighborhood up. It does give me a check engine light (rich condition on the lead O2 sensor) but I just go in and clear the code and all is well again.

Any experience with the Seafoam GDI top end cleaner or the CRC stuff?

Lots of You Tube vids but no one I know of uses it.

We have a 2013 Impala with GDI. We never had any concerns with carbon deposits on the backs of the valves. I never saw any performance decrease in it over the 135,000 miles... before the engine failed! :laughing: Something failed in the VVT system. Cam sequencer(s), solenoids, camshafts themselves. We're not sure. The mechanic never dug into it farther than finding huge amounts of metal shavings in the screens on the solenoids. Had to get a junkyard replacement. I've seen the videos of the carbon deposits, and it makes a lot of sense that since no fuel ever touches the backs of the valve, they never get washed. But it's just air on the back of the intake valves, isn't it? Where would the carbon come from? There's no fuel there.

 

[MossRoad]

Best way I've found to clean gunked up carbs (from phase separated E- gas) is a heated ultrasonic parts washer filled with the carb and parts cleaner (in gallon cans) you can buy at a discount auto parts store like Berrymans Chem Tool or Gunk. 30 minutes in the parts washer at 140 degrees cleans them like new and gets rid of all the crap.

Don't worry Mossy, you'll get your turn in the stale gunked up e-gas merry go around at some point, your odds are gettin worse by the season.

My chainsaws and brush trimmer / cutter always what we call RV gas here. No corn alky, just premium unleaded.

I know. But so far, so good.

When my wife and I got married, we got a Sears 2.5hp walk behind mower with a Briggs engine. It was inexpensive. Our yard was 65' x 135'. I mowed it twice a week. Every week. 3 seasons. For 11 years. Never changed the oil. Never drained the fuel tank in winter. Never got a new air filter. I'd just tap it out if I saw grass clippings in it. After 11 years, we moved and took it with us. It kept running for 18 more years. And, it started on the first pull every spring. I swore to my wife I'd get a new one the year it didn't start on the first pull. We made it a family tradition for the last 15 years of it's life to all come out to the garage and watch me top off the oil if needed, add some gas if needed, give it 10-15 pumps on the primer, and yank that starter cord.... 29 years and it started first pull every spring. As said. Never changed the oil, only topped it off. Never changed the air cleaner, just tapped it out. Never drained the gas, just put it away in the fall with whatever was left in the tank. And it started first pull every spring for 29 years.

Finally, the deck cracked! I could not bear to throw the engine away. I pulled the engine off the deck, and it sits in a place of honor at the back of my garage.

So 29 years of abuse on 10% ethanol, and never a problem. I know it's a fluke. But hey, it's impressive.

 

[ultrarunner]

I know. But so far, so good.

When my wife and I got married, we got a Sears 2.5hp walk behind mower with a Briggs engine. It was inexpensive. Our yard was 65' x 135'. I mowed it twice a week. Every week. 3 seasons. For 11 years. Never changed the oil. Never drained the fuel tank in winter. Never got a new air filter. I'd just tap it out if I saw grass clippings in it. After 11 years, we moved and took it with us. It kept running for 18 more years. And, it started on the first pull every spring. I swore to my wife I'd get a new one the year it didn't start on the first pull. We made it a family tradition for the last 15 years of it's life to all come out to the garage and watch me top off the oil if needed, add some gas if needed, give it 10-15 pumps on the primer, and yank that starter cord.... 29 years and it started first pull every spring. As said. Never changed the oil, only topped it off. Never changed the air cleaner, just tapped it out. Never drained the gas, just put it away in the fall with whatever was left in the tank. And it started first pull every spring for 29 years.

Finally, the deck cracked! I could not bear to throw the engine away. I pulled the engine off the deck, and it sits in a place of honor at the back of my garage.

So 29 years of abuse on 10% ethanol, and never a problem. I know it's a fluke. But hey, it's impressive.

My first power mower was a $89 Sears circa 1983 that I'd haul around on the roof of my Plymouth Valiant every Thursday as part of my rental property management business...

Amazing mower and thrifty... did wear out several sets of wheels... the clamshell catcher never faltered but eventually there was nothing left on the deck solid enough to patch...

I think I too have the motor under the bench.

The replacement mowers all with increased HP were fuel thirsty and all met their demise from bent cranks from hitting something tenants left in the grass such as pitching horseshoes...

Currently Honda Powered Husky $199 then mower... thankfully used enough so that fuel going stale has not been an issue and the Honda motor I like