Does HST Transmission Rob Horsepower??

   #51  

4570Man

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To continue splitting hairs that don't make much difference; the PTO drive does not go through the HST, so there is no power to be lost to the PTO because of a HST. So if the tractor is stationary the PTO HP on a HST or shuttle will be identical. If the tractor is being driven, engine hp is being used to both power the PTO and to move the tractor. The HST does use more of the engine hp to drive the tractor, making less available to the PTO. But in a situation such as mowing heavy brush where PTO hp is an important consideration, the PTO is usually consuming the bulk of the engine HP while moving the tractor isn't using much power at all, so the real world difference is quite negligible. However in the extremely rare instances you are mowing thick brush while going up a steep hill at maximum speed in high range, you would likely see a noticeable difference.

Exactly. In the more reasonable comparison of mowing heavy grass on mostly flat ground there would be very little difference.
 
   #52  

Cougsfan

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One more note; If you are indeed concerned that a HST might leave you short of PTO horsepower, you should really consider buying a larger tractor, regardless of the transmission type you prefer.
 
   #53  

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I'm certainly not in the anti HST camp as that's what works for me. But I think that HSTs do lose a little power vs the same model gear trans even when stationary and running a PTO implement like a chipper. I base that off of manufacturer's specs where the PTO HP is usually a little lower for the HST trans.

Remember that an HST is basically a pump and a motor. One or both can be variable displacement. I think that in most modern CUTs it's the motor that is variable and the pump is fixed displacement. Which means that even when stationary and the range trans is in neutral, the HST pump is pumping fluid. Even though the motor side is not doing any work, that fluid has to go somewhere. The engineers most likely make it go somewhere with a low resistance to flow but it's not zero. Thus some power, like ~1hp on a 40hp machine, is being used by the HST even when stationary.
 
   #54  

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While it is just one Hydro tractor note the Max Pull numbers for all of these IH 544 variants.

I would not have guess which on had the highest Max Pull rating of 6,579 lbs.


What does it prove not much.

What IH said was that the tractors with Hydros excelled at PTO work due to no gear splits to limit the operation, so the perfect speed could be obtained.

I know that when mowing or baling sometime you need to slowdown, but the next lower gear is way to slow.
 
   #55  

4570Man

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While it is just one Hydro tractor note the Max Pull numbers for all of these IH 544 variants.

I would not have guess which on had the highest Max Pull rating of 6,579 lbs.


What does it prove not much.

What IH said was that the tractors with Hydros excelled at PTO work due to no gear splits to limit the operation, so the perfect speed could be obtained.

I know that when mowing or baling sometime you need to slowdown, but the next lower gear is way to slow.

I’ve been saying that for a long time about a HST tractor. If you had a bunch of gears you wouldn’t have that problem but a compact tractor practically never does.
 
   #56  

ptsg

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I’ve been saying that for a long time about a HST tractor. If you had a bunch of gears you wouldn’t have that problem but a compact tractor practically never does.
Most tractors these days offer at least 12 speeds forward and 12 reverse, you're saying that in 12 gears you can't find one that suits the job? That's impressive.

On my end, I can have at least three different gears all the time that I could use for the same job, and if I'm doing PTO work, I can still "split" those gears by using 540E.

Even a 9x3 transmission will still have plenty of gears.
 
   #57  

dieselscout80

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Sometimes it is not the lack of gears, but rather the gear splits.

If you need to use/go one gear below a range or use/go to one gear above a range you have to completely stop.

I look at this when I am look for a newer tractor.

I like to mow my pastures at 3.5 MPH and having the ability to down shift if the grass is thick its important to me as I do that shift often in places.

I think if I had a tractor with range of four synchronized gears with nice even 1 MPH splits starting say 1.5 MPH (e.g., 2.5, 3.5 & 4.5 MPH), then I may never have to switch ranges for most work on our property.

I guess what I am saying its the correct gear combinations that is important. With some tractors I have looked at the 2.5 MPH and 3.5 MPH gears are in different ranges.

That said I make do with a gear drive tractor with 8 unsynchronized gears.

All the upgrades to tractors just make them nicer to operate and to each his own.

What tractor/transmission you chose is simply your choice and it not right or wrong it just yours and I hope you enjoy operating it.
 
   #58  

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Most tractors these days offer at least 12 speeds forward and 12 reverse, you're saying that in 12 gears you can't find one that suits the job? That's impressive.

On my end, I can have at least three different gears all the time that I could use for the same job, and if I'm doing PTO work, I can still "split" those gears by using 540E.

Even a 9x3 transmission will still have plenty of gears.
I cant get the correct gear sometimes even with 16 speeds!
Especially with hay work.
Sometimes the difference between 5 high and 6 high is raking too slow or too fast.
The newer version of my tractor has 24 speeds (3x8). My older version is a 16 speed (2x8). I find myself looking for those “in between” gears sometimes.
 
   #59  

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Wow, this thread is really getting a little tribal! I grow weary of reading "if anyone who doesn't agree with my particular choice of transmission, they are obviously mistaken." Having owned and/or operated HST, geared tractor with dry clutch or shuttle for many years, I can understand how someone could prefer one over the others, either way. None can claim absolute superiority for all conditions, and each have advantages in certain conditions. And if one has any ability at all to adapt, one could easily live with any of them under most any condition.
Good point. I also have observed that although this is “Tractor by Net” it is mostly “[small, under 75HP] Tractor by Net”. Hydrostatic is going to be disproportionately more popular HERE because larger tractors are unavailable with hydro.
The last 20 years in bigger tractors has seen the emergence of IVT/CVT transmissions. Drives like a finger-touch hydro.....
I thought it couldn’t get better when the push button powersfhift transmissions came out. The IVT/CVT is even better. Extremely nice to operate.
 
   #60  

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To continue splitting hairs that don't make much difference; the PTO drive does not go through the HST, so there is no power to be lost to the PTO because of a HST. So if the tractor is stationary the PTO HP on a HST or shuttle will be identical. If the tractor is being driven, engine hp is being used to both power the PTO and to move the tractor. The HST does use more of the engine hp to drive the tractor, making less available to the PTO. But in a situation such as mowing heavy brush where PTO hp is an important consideration, the PTO is usually consuming the bulk of the engine HP while moving the tractor isn't using much power at all, so the real world difference is quite negligible. However in the extremely rare instances you are mowing thick brush while going up a steep hill at maximum speed in high range, you would likely see a noticeable difference.
The HST still has the charge pump running even if you aren't moving, so that constant load is the difference between the PTO HP of a HST and a gear tractor.

That said, for brush hogging I would much prefer a HST over a geared tractor and slightly over a shuttle shift with torque converter such as Kubota's GST. It is much more convenient to be able to bump forward or backwards a couple inches with just your foot and not have to change a lever or move otherwise.

So, for anything besides heavy dirt work (such as plowing/disking a field) I would go with HST or possibly a GST transmission

Aaron Z
 
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   #61  

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I'm the opposite because of the inherent heat of operation. Why large ag tractors never have Hydrostatic transmissions and modern ones are now CVT instead of gear drive.

The most efficient and the least parasitic power loss will always be a gear drive.
 
   #62  

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Just had the MF7495 out today. Runs like a dream with the CVT.
1618022497953.jpeg



1618022395150.jpeg
 

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Modern large CVT’s are part hydrostatic. They het their CVT by rotating the ring gear on the planet Aries with a hydro motor. Rotate it one way and the result will be near zero, rotate the other way to get max. Many have a second planetary that comes into play part way. But the hydrostatic motor controls the ring gear.
 

LD1

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Tractor PTO is mechanical/gear all the way through.

Engine power transfer to the PTO will be the same whether tractor has a gear transmission or an HST transmission as PTO does not interface with the wheel transmission.


Engine power transferred to tractor wheels will be higher with a gear transmission.

HST is easier to use and speed choice infinite but it is pump/hydraulically driven, which is less efficient transferring energy than mechanical/gear drive.

Only a few tractor brands offer an HST transmission on tractors generating more than 60 engine horsepower. Over 60 engine horsepower most new tractors are available only with gear + shuttle shift.

HST and Gear/Shuttle are equally reliable.

HST and Gear/Shuttle are more reliable than traditional Gear/Clutch .

VIDEO:

Neal Messick, Messick's Tractor, ( five stores in Pennsylvania )
relates that Messick's sales are 90% HST in tractors of 60 horsepower or less.
Im surprised no one has commented on this.

Am I the only one that found this video a little off in that the gear tractor pulled harder?

Maybe I missed him say....but what range was that hydro in? No wheel slip at all.....

IF I put my MX in Low range, I can spin the tires. I fail to see how a gear tractor, under the same circumstances, also spinning the wheels....can pull any harder than that. IF anything, the HST being 154 pounds heavier, should pull harder???

When comparing PTO HP between HST and gear....maybe saying "rob" as in HST rob's more power is the incorrect term....but its an easy way to explain it. Take my MX5100 for example. Same engine HP between gear and hydro. Gear puts 44HP out the PTO, the HST puts 42.5 to the PTO. Meaning it takes takes the HST tractor an extra 1.5HP just to operate the drivetrain compared to the gear. So its easy to just say the HST (as in the transmission/drivetrain) "robs" power from the pto.

Arguing on verbiage is just semantics at this point. We all get the concept.

I went from a gear L3400 to a HST MX5100. There is no comparison to the convivence of a HST for 90% of the work done. For mowing/brushhogging which comprises a good 50% of my work....its like comparing a zero turn to a garden tractor. Ease of speed changes to slow down for dense areas...or to take it easy around obstacles, or ease up for rough areas, and speed back up for smooth areas is beyond compare. Same for loader work.

MY old gear tractor I felt like there was never a perfect gear/speed. I either wanted to go a little slower.....or I wanted to go a little faster. But with a gear....down shifting might me a huge step down in speed, or up shifting might be too fast. The HST is always the perfect speed.

Now where the HST has its downfalls is hard ground engaging stuff. Like plowing and discing. I have a JD210 transport disc. and a 3-14 plow. Low range max speed is 3.7MPH. Medium is like 7.5. Low range just seems too slow for plowing or discing. I'd like 4.5-5 mph. But shifting to medium It simply lacks the power to pull it any faster than low range can. Hence the inefficiency of HST. A gear tractor with a few gear selections between 3.5 and 7.5MPH would solve this. But for no more plowing/discing than I do (just a couple of large gardens and 2 acres of field corn) the sacrifice is worth it for the other 90% of the things I do that a HST really shines at.
 

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-I heard from guys at work that the new tractors with HST transmissions rob the PTO of HP? What is the difference between HST and Shuttle Shift? Would like to buy a tractor to bush hog about 20+ years of brush overgrowth on 70 acres. I'm a fan of the FORD 10 series tractors but the new tractors seem inviting.
Personally I would look for a good 10 series ford mainly because of their simplicity. 70 ac of brush mowing is going to offer a lot of opportunities for things to go wrong. With these newer tractors all it takes is one stick to catch a wire and all the sudden you have an engine shutdown because some sensor or safety circuit is disconnected.

An older gear tractor with split brakes can offer almost a zero turn radius once you get the hang of stab braking and just a whole lot less to go wrong. I do all my brush hogging with my oldest tractor which is an old Oliver Super 55. It works great and even if I had a catastrophic failure, It would still be cheaper for me to buy another and replace it the whole thing then to have my JD sent to the shop to replace the PTO clutch packs or something similar.
 

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I'm certainly not in the anti HST camp as that's what works for me. But I think that HSTs do lose a little power vs the same model gear trans even when stationary and running a PTO implement like a chipper. I base that off of manufacturer's specs where the PTO HP is usually a little lower for the HST trans.

Remember that an HST is basically a pump and a motor. One or both can be variable displacement. I think that in most modern CUTs it's the motor that is variable and the pump is fixed displacement. Which means that even when stationary and the range trans is in neutral, the HST pump is pumping fluid. Even though the motor side is not doing any work, that fluid has to go somewhere. The engineers most likely make it go somewhere with a low resistance to flow but it's not zero. Thus some power, like ~1hp on a 40hp machine, is being used by the HST even when stationary.
Actually it's the pump that's variable. Most CUTs have a single speed motor. In the case of the Kubota Grand L tractors (and a couple others) they have a two speed motor. When not moving the only loss vs a geared tractor in HP is the pump that supplies oil to the HST pump. It's not much but it does use some HP.
 

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Most tractors these days offer at least 12 speeds forward and 12 reverse, you're saying that in 12 gears you can't find one that suits the job? That's impressive.

On my end, I can have at least three different gears all the time that I could use for the same job, and if I'm doing PTO work, I can still "split" those gears by using 540E.

Even a 9x3 transmission will still have plenty of gears.

I’ve never seen a small tractor like 5,000 pounds or less on this side of the pond with 12 gears. 4 with a hi/low would be a more common package. Admittedly I haven’t spent much time looking at small geared tractor transmissions because I don’t have any desire to have one.
 

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I’ve never seen a small tractor like 5,000 pounds or less on this side of the pond with 12 gears. 4 with a hi/low would be a more common package. Admittedly I haven’t spent much time looking at small geared tractor transmissions because I don’t have any desire to have one.
Over here, most 30+ HP tractors will have at least 12 gears, some will have more. Some 25 to 30HP will have a 9x9 Shuttle shift transmission, like the Kubota B2650. Anything smaller will have the common 9x3 transmission.

The Kubota L2501 over here, is actually a 50HP tractor with mid mounted ROPS, draft control and some other stuff.

I've found that manufacturers will offer a lot more "farming related features" in Europe, like position and draft control, wider range of gears, R1 radial tires, quick attach hooks, front weights, front 3 pt, 540E/1000 PTO, etc. While in the US, they know most <50HP tractors are usual just to move snow around or mow the lawn and they seem to focus more on how easy is to connect the mid mounted mower or how many cup holders it has.
 

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Over here, most 30+ HP tractors will have at least 12 gears, some will have more. Some 25 to 30HP will have a 9x9 Shuttle shift transmission, like the Kubota B2650. Anything smaller will have the common 9x3 transmission.

The Kubota L2501 over here, is actually a 50HP tractor with mid mounted ROPS, draft control and some other stuff.

I've found that manufacturers will offer a lot more "farming related features" in Europe, like position and draft control, wider range of gears, R1 radial tires, quick attach hooks, front weights, front 3 pt, 540E/1000 PTO, etc. While in the US, they know most <50HP tractors are usual just to move snow around or mow the lawn and they seem to focus more on how easy is to connect the mid mounted mower or how many cup holders it has.
Probably because farms in Europe tend to be much smaller. When we visited in times past, it was common to see 10 acre farms. I bet youll see those features more and more on small tractors.
As the years go by in the US, so many Americans are fleeing the corruption of cities for lower taxed, simpler, less violent areas and go back to gardening & small time farming...
 

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HST loose quite a bit more HP than gear transmissions do but how much, depends on where the transmission is being operating at in its power curve. That is if you're trying to go fast, then its loses are quite high. The losses vary from something over 8% to over 15 while at high speeds. This is why slower machines tend to use HST systems since they don't need to go high speeds anyway. Gear transmissions loose less than 2%.

I should add that HST tractors rock at certain jobs, like loader work. (y)
 
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ptsg

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Probably because farms in Europe tend to be much smaller. When we visited in times past, it was common to see 10 acre farms. I bet youll see those features more and more on small tractors.
As the years go by in the US, so many Americans are fleeing the corruption of cities for lower taxed, simpler, less violent areas and go back to gardening & small time farming...
Exactly. Also, European manufacturers will offer stuff like compressed air and/or hydraulic brakes for trailers, along with ground speed sync'ed PTO also to power trailers, front diff locks, 3pt downforce ability, etc.

We do have some big farms as well. Mostly located towards the bottom half of Portugal. The upper half (North) of the country is very hilly, full of mountains and so on. The bottom half (South) is very very flat and nice for farms, so there is where the biggest farms are located.

I do know that they have two big JD 9620R with big scrappers attached to them, all fitted with laser stuff for grading. They mainly use these tractors to level big farms. Also, there are a lot of big Fendts, NH, Masseys, Valtra, JD, running down there.

We have huge tomato farms and when it's harvest time, the roads get packed with big tractors pulling fully loaded truck trailers using 5th wheel dolly's.
 

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I spend quite a bit of time in close quarters, in soft ground, and on slippery hills. I’ve owned only gear drive and it seems my left and right foot are pretty well trained to act properly when things are difficult. I can certainly see advantages to an HST, but am concerned I just wouldn’t react properly when using one in difficult situations. I’m interested what others have found.
 

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Here is an efficiency curve I had created by a hydrostatic system supplier when trying to resolve customer complaints that they needed to go faster than 4 mph (max speed at the max displacement of the propel motor) but the unit would not drive up slopes in high. This system introduced a variable control in the motor that varied the displacement depending on speed. What the graph really provides is the loss of efficiency of a hydro system throughout its range (this graph is at full system pressure 420 bar (about 6,100 psi). This is just the hydro system - following the motor there are gear reductions (just like in a hydro tractor) of which we figure 3% loss per gear set. In this cast it goes to a 40:1 gear reduction through a bevel gear and planetary so 6% additional loss due to the gears. In this case, the 107 HP engine will be putting about 77 HP to the ground not considering other parasitics (power steering, cooling fan, alternator). On the other hand, this machine (pneumatic tired roller for compacting asphalt) needs extremely smooth starts and stops to prevent ripping up hot asphalt and gears just don't cut it. The compromise is to sacrifice efficiency for performance. First prototype went to a crew that did have a mechanical transmission. They had converted the foot clutch to a hand clutch for the operator who had wore out his knee on the frequent shifts. It had a shuttle transmission but starts and stops were to abrupt so the operator needed to de-clutch at each end of a one minute pass. My Kubota L6060 would be similar to the green and blue curves - 2 motor displacements with no stepless shift.


Propel Efficiency.jpg
 

MiserableOldFart

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Tractor PTO is mechanical/gear all the way through.

Engine power transfer to the PTO will be the same whether tractor has a gear transmission or an HST transmission as PTO does not interface with the wheel transmission.


Engine power transferred to tractor wheels will be higher with a gear transmission.

HST is easier to use and speed choice infinite but it is pump/hydraulically driven, which is less efficient transferring energy than mechanical/gear drive.

Only a few tractor brands offer an HST transmission on tractors generating more than 60 engine horsepower. Over 60 engine horsepower most new tractors are available only with gear + shuttle shift.

HST and Gear/Shuttle are equally reliable.

HST and Gear/Shuttle are more reliable than traditional Gear/Clutch .

VIDEO:

Neal Messick, Messick's Tractor, ( five stores in Pennsylvania )
relates that Messick's sales are 90% HST in tractors of 60 horsepower or less.
All the data I have ever seen show Hydro versions of the same tractor having less PTO hp than gear. I would submit that it's likely that if that small amount of power is important to you, you probably should be looking for a more powerful tractor to begin with, but Hydro machines usually show lower PTO hp.
 

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You could write a book on all the comments about which is better
a gear or hydro. The hydor's are being made more efficent and I
IMHO don't believe there is that much of a loss of power between
the two trannys. Just purchase what you like and be done with it.
Remember wanting what you have not wanting what you haven't
IS HAPPINESS!!!!
Maybe you young guys like shifting the gears as us old fogies like
the hyrto's as our knees and clutches don't get along so good.
Also for the price of the fuel it costs for the difference don't matter
cause we don't have a 1000 acres to work! So have fun with
what you have

willy
 

npalen

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Which is better, a tractor with or without power steering? The tractor with power steering is going to have less power to the PTO. (or is it)

Edit: I ask this as a sort of rhetorical question as it somewhat parallels the issue of loss of PTO horsepower with HST verses GST.
 
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LD1

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Which is better, a tractor with or without power steering? The tractor with power steering is going to have less power to the PTO. (or is it)

Edit: I ask this as a sort of rhetorical question as it somewhat parallels the issue of loss of PTO horsepower with HST verses GST.
Or what about loading tires and adding a cab. Thats extra dead weight thats gonna rob power when going up hills?
 

npalen

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Or what about loading tires and adding a cab. Thats extra dead weight thats gonna rob power when going up hills?
Yes, the point is that adding hydrostatic steering uses horsepower as the pump is running all the time but the benefit outweighs the cost. The difference in PTO horsepower rating on a hydrostat tractor is a somewhat confusing issue as many have alluded to in the above posts.
 

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All the data I have ever seen show Hydro versions of the same tractor having less PTO hp than gear. I would submit that it's likely that if that small amount of power is important to you, you probably should be looking for a more powerful tractor to begin with, but Hydro machines usually show lower PTO hp.

The hst tractor will maintain engine rpm’s but slow down. The geared tractor will lose rpm, produce less HP to the PTO as well as slowing down.

These factors are incorporated into the electronic engine/transmission control.
 

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I’ve never seen a small tractor like 5,000 pounds or less on this side of the pond with 12 gears. 4 with a hi/low would be a more common package. Admittedly I haven’t spent much time looking at small geared tractor transmissions because I don’t have any desire to have one.
My mahindrs 2810 has a 12x12 shuttle tranny. But when brushhogging i still would like more gears sometimes. My old mf 255 is an 8x2 and you are never in the right gear.
 

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Maybe you young guys like shifting the gears as us old fogies like
the hydro's as our knees and clutches don't get along so good.

One question I have is never brought up.

All I ever read is that clutches can be troublesome for knees, but what about the need for your right foot to be constantly applying see-saw pressure to a treadle? I would have to think that can be just as painful to some instances.
 

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Branson, Mo.
Tractor
Kioti DK35se Hydrostat
One question I have is never brought up.

All I ever read is that clutches can be troublesome for knees, but what about the need for your right foot to be constantly applying see-saw pressure to a treadle? I would have to think that can be just as painful to some instances.
Trust me, it isn't. Also Hydro machines have cruise control (most do anyway) so you can take your foot off of the pedal (s) for some length of time like while mowing. Until you need to maneuver around something the cruise keeps the pedal mashed. Of course a gear tractor can mow just as well as long as the terrain and the load on the mower is even. Just set the throttle in the chosen gear and away you go. BUT when the mowing is NOT even, then the hydro shines.

When you come to the sections that is up hill or bumpy or the growth is high, just take over and rapidly adjust the pedal pressure as needed to slow down and speed up as needed. No swatting of flies and stomping of rats like you have to do with gear and even range swaps to maintain the speed you need. Hydro really shines in this application. Likewise hydro is superior in loader/fork work. It just is. I have owned both types several times over and the results are in.

Just like gear is superior in some application like plowing a large field. There is no doubt. Gear machines will produce less heat and have superior fuel economy. Everything you do out in a field as long as it does not require much speed or directional changes will benefit from the greater efficiency of a gear machine.

After you have done 8 hours of loader work with old knees with a gear machine, you will understand the benefits of a hydro machine in loader work. It is that simple.
 

buck12

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,087
Location
Mississippi
Tractor
Kubota 5460HSTC
One question I have is never brought up.

All I ever read is that clutches can be troublesome for knees, but what about the need for your right foot to be constantly applying see-saw pressure to a treadle? I would have to think that can be just as painful to some instances.
My decision to upgrade to a tractor with HST was sped up by a case of quad tendonitis. A day pushing the clutch on my previous tractor or a few trips up and down a ladder and I was useless for a couple of days. The HST pedal causes me no problems and I rarely use cruise.

For my uses, mostly bush hogging and FEL work, HST is so more efficient.
 

ROUSTABOUT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
1,186
Location
Luther Willis Hill, AR
Tractor
Pettibone, Ford, Massey Ferguson, International, JD, David Bradley, home mades
Tractor PTO is mechanical/gear all the way through.

Engine power transfer to the PTO will be the same whether tractor has a gear transmission or an HST transmission as PTO does not interface with the wheel transmission.


Engine power transferred to tractor wheels will be higher with a gear transmission.

HST is easier to use and speed choice infinite but it is pump/hydraulically driven, which is less efficient transferring energy than mechanical/gear drive.

Only a few tractor brands offer an HST transmission on tractors generating more than 60 engine horsepower. Over 60 engine horsepower most new tractors are available only with gear + shuttle shift.

HST and Gear/Shuttle are equally reliable.

HST and Gear/Shuttle are more reliable than traditional Gear/Clutch .

VIDEO:

Neal Messick, Messick's Tractor, ( five stores in Pennsylvania )
relates that Messick's sales are 90% HST in tractors of 60 horsepower or less.
HST if for the little flower bed tractors.
 

crashz

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
2,110
Location
NH & Upstate NY
Tractor
Kubota L2501
And Cat 938 wheel loaders.

Most new mid size wheel loaders have hydro transmissions now. Less shock, faster cycle times, seemingly endless power and faster speed. How? I have no idea. But they move. And dig like no torque converter machine I've ever operated.
 

Williy

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
1,339
Location
Texas
Tractor
Yanmar YT 235C Yannar YRC 60 rotary cutter, Yanmar RT72 rotary tiller B75 Backhoe & bucket & thumb, LS land grader
Trust me, it isn't. Also Hydro machines have cruise control (most do anyway) so you can take your foot off of the pedal (s) for some length of time like while mowing. Until you need to maneuver around something the cruise keeps the pedal mashed. Of course a gear tractor can mow just as well as long as the terrain and the load on the mower is even. Just set the throttle in the chosen gear and away you go. BUT when the mowing is NOT even, then the hydro shines.

When you come to the sections that is up hill or bumpy or the growth is high, just take over and rapidly adjust the pedal pressure as needed to slow down and speed up as needed. No swatting of flies and stomping of rats like you have to do with gear and even range swaps to maintain the speed you need. Hydro really shines in this application. Likewise hydro is superior in loader/fork work. It just is. I have owned both types several times over and the results are in.

Just like gear is superior in some application like plowing a large field. There is no doubt. Gear machines will produce less heat and have superior fuel economy. Everything you do out in a field as long as it does not require much speed or directional changes will benefit from the greater efficiency of a gear machine.

After you have done 8 hours of loader work with old knees with a gear machine, you will understand the benefits of a hydro machine in loader work. It is that simple.
The hydro trannys have been inproved over the years and now there
is very little difference between the two. Those who want a standard
tyranny's just buy them. I prefer the hydro mush easier to use. Everyone has there opinion on tranny's just like tractors that's why they made so many different tractors and models to choose from

willy
wanna keep a blonde busy? write on the top of the paper both sides
"OVER"
 
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