Does MFWD replace HP ?

[Beavis]

When shopping for a new tractor, how much less HP rated tractor can you get by with if the tractor has MFWD? For example if you look at the "great plains" website they have minimum HP requirements for some of their products: drills, field cultivators, etc.

With this in mind, let's look at the JD 5 series:
How would a 5075E (2 wheel drive 75hp) compare to a
5055E (MFWD 55hp) ?

I know that the 2 wheel drive vs. MFWD has nothing to do with the overall hydraulics of the tractor; my concern is more about ground engaging impliments; disk, field cultivator, etc.

THANKS

 

[AndyMA]

It's very difficult to say. Clearli ihf thev75 hp tractor can get all it's power to the ground it will be able to outpull the 55 hp 4wd or not.

Things like tractor weight, tire size and type, ballasting and numerout other factors come into play.

You may want to look at the Nebraska tractor test data and compare drawbar hp. I think you may find that a properly ballasted 75hp 2wd will outpull a 55hp 4wd.

Andy

 

[Gary Fowler]

The only thing that 4wd gains over 2 wd is the weight difference. You can get more traction with less weight with a 4 WD and therefore you have less soil compaction. As for pulling, as stated before, a properly ballasted and tired (meaning you may need dual wheels) 2 wd will pull just as much as a 4 wd of equal HP. THe 4 Wd will just do it will much less weight. Now in muddy soils, the 4 WD is at an advantage since first it likely weighs less and therefore wont rut as deep and you get more balance traction, so it may go further in the mud and pull more than the same HP 2 WD with lots of ballast and bigger tires or even dual wheels. Most of the CUT and SCUT tractors are 4 WD so they can pull more with the lighter weight that they all have compared to the Utility grade farm tractors.

 

[Bird]

I know we've discussed this in the past, and I've posted in the past that a full time farmer (primarily hay business) who had 3 John Deeres in the hundred HP range, all 2WD, told me once he'd never buy another one without the 4WD because it gave the equivalent of 25% more power. Of course the reason it seemed like that much more power may very well be what Gary has said.

 

[Dargo]

You can get more traction with less weight with a 4 WD and therefore you have less soil compaction.

That is the exact reason several farmers and two different tractor dealers told me is the reason why 2wd is "extinct" in the modern farm except for pulling carts and the like. I'm told (which means I have no personal experience) that soil compaction has a major impact on crop growth and volume. One farmer next to my remote property uses triples on each corner of his large (450 hp or so) tractor and says he has less ground pressure than he would if he were using an old 8N tractor!

 

[flusher]

That is the exact reason several farmers and two different tractor dealers told me is the reason why 2wd is "extinct" in the modern farm except for pulling carts and the like. I'm told (which means I have no personal experience) that soil compaction has a major impact on crop growth and volume. One farmer next to my remote property uses triples on each corner of his large (450 hp or so) tractor and says he has less ground pressure than he would if he were using an old 8N tractor!

Which is, I guess, the reason a lot of commercial farmers use rubber belted track tractors

8R/8RT Series Tractors

My neighbor uses his old steel track D7 Cat to rip and disc his alfalfa fields and says it produces less compaction than his MF 294S 4WD tractor even though the D7 weighs about 4 times more than the 294.

 

[kthompson]

Some tractor manuals will give you an idea on size of implements you can use with them. They normally give you the info for 2 wheel and 4 wheel if that model can be bought either way. I would think they will be safe in their figures.

 

[jenkinsph]

Which is, I guess, the reason a lot of commercial farmers use rubber belted track tractors

8R/8RT Series Tractors

My neighbor uses his old steel track D7 Cat to rip and disc his alfalfa fields and says it produces less compaction than his MF 294S 4WD tractor even though the D7 weighs about 4 times more than the 294.

You can look up the specs on most dozers and they will often show the ground pressure to be around 7 psi or something close to it, so something like a bicycle with 80 psi should compact the soil more than the dozer.

 

[two_bit_score]

You can look up the specs on most dozers and they will often show the ground pressure to be around 7 psi or something close to it, so something like a bicycle with 80 psi should compact the soil more than the dozer.

Of course. Just over a much smaller area.

 

[Diamondpilot]

In a nut shell if you need pto power HP is king. If you need pulling power MFWD is king.

Here is my situation. I have a Ford 861 Powermaster 48HP 2 Wheel Drive.

My second tractor is a Jinma 284 28HP 4 Wheel Drive. The Jinma will out pull the Ford any day of the week. It does not matter if I am pulling out a stuck truck, logs, 2 bottom plow, ect it just plain out works it. Nothing wrong with the Ford and its great for PTO jobs like Bush Hogging but when it comes to 95% of the task I do the Jinma out shines it.


Chris

 

[radman1]

Does MFWD replace HP? I would say the answer is usually no. People are confusing weight with MFWD and HP.

Maybe the question should be "Does MFWD replace weight?" Then the answer is probably yes in most cases. I have a 130 hp, rear duals, IH 1086 and 2008 Case IH 125 (125hp) MFWD. The 1086 wieghs about 1000 lbs more than the 125. Pulling the same 21' disc, the 125 does a better job. The MFWD results in less slippage because the weight is better balanced over the tires. The newer 125 also has the advantage of auto locking the front and rear differentials and this makes pulling heavy loads very noticeable.

 

[radman1]

Which is, I guess, the reason a lot of commercial farmers use rubber belted track tractors

8R/8RT Series Tractors

My neighbor uses his old steel track D7 Cat to rip and disc his alfalfa fields and says it produces less compaction than his MF 294S 4WD tractor even though the D7 weighs about 4 times more than the 294.

This has been the accepted rational that tracked machines cause less compaction. A recent study by the Univ of SD discovered a tracked tractor may have as much compaction or more compared to a MFWD tractor with rear duals. What they discovered is ground is not perfectly flat. Any rise or dip resulted in high compaction areas because the wheels and rollers exerted a lot of pressure over a relatively small area. Newer ag tractor radial tires have a larger footprint than prior belted tires, run at a lower psi, are larger in diameter and have give in the sidewalls. This helps to reduce compaction. I suspect the D7 is causing a lot more compaction than he thinks.

Tracked tractors ride harsh on the road because the is no give between the belted track and solid steel rim. This effect is not noticed in the field and most seem to ride smoother over dips, bumps ect. Tracks also leave berms of dirt on the ends when turning and not as useful in row crops because they flatten more crop when turning.

 

[AndyMA]

In a nut shell if you need pto power HP is king. If you need pulling power MFWD is king.

Here is my situation. I have a Ford 861 Powermaster 48HP 2 Wheel Drive.

My second tractor is a Jinma 284 28HP 4 Wheel Drive. The Jinma will out pull the Ford any day of the week. It does not matter if I am pulling out a stuck truck, logs, 2 bottom plow, ect it just plain out works it. Nothing wrong with the Ford and its great for PTO jobs like Bush Hogging but when it comes to 95% of the task I do the Jinma out shines it.

Chris

Chris

Apply some physics please. A 28 light duty machine will not out pull a 48 hp heavier machine given equal traction.

 

[sld]

I have always been told and read that in identical tractors having FWA adds 30 percent to the amount of pulling from the drawbar.

It does make a big difference but only when comparing apples to apples. Obviously, a big heavy 2wd will out perform a smaller lighter 4wd.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Chris

Apply some physics please. A 28 light duty machine will not out pull a 48 hp heavier machine given equal traction.

Sure it will. They both weigh about the same, Ford 2991# and the Jinma 3003#, and the gear selection is much better on the Jinma. The Ford only has 1 wheel pulling while the Jinma has MFWD and a locking rear diff. Does not take a rocket scientist to see when you hook a chain to a stump, log, or shrub and try to pull it with the Ford and its a no go then go get the Jinma and it yanks it right out there is a advantage.

Chris

 

[AndyMA]

Sure it will. They both weigh about the same, Ford 2991# and the Jinma 3003#, and the gear selection is much better on the Jinma. The Ford only has 1 wheel pulling while the Jinma has MFWD and a locking rear diff. Does not take a rocket scientist to see when you hook a chain to a stump, log, or shrub and try to pull it with the Ford and its a no go then go get the Jinma and it yanks it right out there is a advantage.

Chris

I said given equal traction

 

[oldnslo]

Firestone tire company and Nebraska college or university did a study back in the 70's on HP transfer efficiency. And that the conclusion was you could effectively utilize 100 HP in a 2WD tractor on good footing. (NOTE: I do NOT remember what percentage of wheel slip they considered acceptable or normal) Adding MFWA increased this by 25%. Newer radial tires may have raised these numbers but like other have stated....

If using for PTO HP will win, if using for pulling implements traction will win. Boils down to conditions present. Since spinning / slipping wheels consume HP MFWA will reduce the slippage.

Roy

 

[blueriver]

MFWD or not ... its still the same HP at the PTO or draw bar.

 

[oldnslo]

MFWD or not ... its still the same HP at the PTO or draw bar.

This is true, the variable is how efficiently is this power utilized.



Review this post by radman, it explains this very well.
Maybe the question should be "Does MFWD replace weight?" Then the answer is probably yes in most cases. I have a 130 hp, rear duals, IH 1086 and 2008 Case IH 125 (125hp) MFWD. The 1086 wieghs about 1000 lbs more than the 125. Pulling the same 21' disc, the 125 does a better job. The MFWD results in less slippage because the weight is better balanced over the tires. The newer 125 also has the advantage of auto locking the front and rear differentials and this makes pulling heavy loads very noticeable.

Roy