Does the weight of the FEL give you more stability??

[SPYDERLK]

It's gonna be more stable w/o the FEL on for this simple reason: No matter ballast or not, the FEL is going to transfer weight to the front end, so the rear end is going to be lighter than w/o the FEL. When you transfer the weight off the back end, you have put it on a pivoting axle that, even if the front wheels stay on the ground, allows the tractor to lean downhill. So you have less weight on that solid up-hill rear wheel and less stability.

:thumbsup: Gold Star answer. Too bad we dont have one.
larry

 

[RaydaKub]

:thumbsup: Gold Star answer. Too bad we dont have one.
larry

Gosh Larry, I'm touched.
Nope, I don't see a star either. Guess I'll have to settle for the :goldmedal:. :laughing:

 

[Egon]

Fill the FEL with dirt and keep it low if you want stability.

 

[LD1]

I guess it all depends on what kind of stability you are looking for and what the tractor is. If you want side to side stability, it depends on the tractor and implements hooked to it, but generally without the FEL will be more stable. That said, even if the FEL makes it more un-stable, I like leaving it on. It is kinda a fail-safe. As others mentioned, you can jam it into the ground to stop a tip-over situation, you can push/pull yourself with it if in a bad situation, and you can run it into the ground for an emergency stop.

For for and aft stability, it depends on wether going up of down the hill. If going up, FEL on is a good thing. If going down a hill and no rear implement, having it on can be a bad thing.

 

[radioman]

My :2cents: - If you have nothing on the 3 pt on the BX, its so much easier with FEL off when mowing esp. on the hills. Trying to save on time deciding when to take it off or on is nuts. It really only take a few moments once you take it off or on many times its becomes no big deal.
I love the BX nimbleness when the FEL is off so I can do things with it - so why not?

 

[Bluegill2]

It's gonna be more stable w/o the FEL on for this simple reason: No matter ballast or not, the FEL is going to transfer weight to the front end, so the rear end is going to be lighter than w/o the FEL. When you transfer the weight off the back end, you have put it on a pivoting axle that, even if the front wheels stay on the ground, allows the tractor to lean downhill. So you have less weight on that solid up-hill rear wheel and less stability.

I agree with the above.

The only way to make it more stable with FEL on, is to have the same amount of weight on the 3 pt hitch.

I never mow with the FEL on. And if the FEL is on, I always have ballast on the 3 pt hitch.

 

[LD1]

Yea, for mowing, manuverability is a big thing. And you just dont have much of it with the FEL on. But for "other" tasks where tight corners might not be a big issue, it all just depends on the circumstances as to what way is better.

 

[PhilY]

I believe having the FEL on can both hurt and help stability. The FEL is attached at the belly of the tractor just behind the front wheel, so this is where all the forces to the tractor are applied. Please note I mentioned the forces and not the weight. Then you have 2 towers that act as lever arms, and since the FEL is sticking out in front, the force on the tower arms is such that it is trying to rotate them forward. When the tractor is stationary, this forward rotational force is the same whether the FEL is at 7 or 11 and at 8 or 10 o'clock. This is because the horizontal distance these arms reach forward is the same at both points. Therefore, this forward rotational force is greatest at 9 o'clock as it is also the greatest distance forward. However, if the tractor is sitting sideways on a hill, it is like someone attaching a tow strap to the FEL towers on the down hill side. If the bucket is as low as possible, it would be like someone pulling down on the tow strap right next to the tractor. No major sideways force here since the force pulling down on the tower is in a pretty steep angle. However, as the FEL is raised so will be the point from which this tow strap is pulled from. Thus, making it easier to roll the tractor over. Then you have momentum, which only exaggerates the forces applied when changing direction like braking, speeding up and turning. Therefore, mowing in a straight line without changing speed or direction, makes all the forces like you were sitting still. I am sure we all understand these concepts, but thought I would mention them here to help explain my following comment. If the center of gravity of the FEL is kept below the center of gravity of the tractor, it can help stability. If the FEL is higher than the tractor's center of gravity, of course it will hurt it. My FEL adds about 1100 lbs to the weight of my tractor which helps with a lot of traction on those front tires. This really helps my sticking power on hills.

 

[RaydaKub]

I believe having the FEL on can both hurt and help stability. The FEL is attached at the belly of the tractor just behind the front wheel, so this is where all the forces to the tractor are applied. Please note I mentioned the forces and not the weight. Then you have 2 towers that act as lever arms, and since the FEL is sticking out in front, the force on the tower arms is such that it is trying to rotate them forward. When the tractor is stationary, this forward rotational force is the same whether the FEL is at 7 or 11 and at 8 or 10 o'clock. This is because the horizontal distance these arms reach forward is the same at both points. Therefore, this forward rotational force is greatest at 9 o'clock as it is also the greatest distance forward. However, if the tractor is sitting sideways on a hill, it is like someone attaching a tow strap to the FEL towers on the down hill side. If the bucket is as low as possible, it would be like someone pulling down on the tow strap right next to the tractor. No major sideways force here since the force pulling down on the tower is in a pretty steep angle. However, as the FEL is raised so will be the point from which this tow strap is pulled from. Thus, making it easier to roll the tractor over. Then you have momentum, which only exaggerates the forces applied when changing direction like braking, speeding up and turning. Therefore, mowing in a straight line without changing speed or direction, makes all the forces like you were sitting still. I am sure we all understand these concepts, but thought I would mention them here to help explain my following comment. If the center of gravity of the FEL is kept below the center of gravity of the tractor, it can help stability. If the FEL is higher than the tractor's center of gravity, of course it will hurt it. My FEL adds about 1100 lbs to the weight of my tractor which helps with a lot of traction on those front tires. This really helps my sticking power on hills.

If your front axle is solid on the tractor, then the FEL held an inch or 2 off the ground is going to be a help. The problem is that the front axle is not solid and allows the tractor to rock. If you take weight off the rear end by adding the FEL, you have transferred it to the rocking front end. No way possible that this will be more stable. The COG on a side hill is NOT over the center pivot of the front axle, it is going to be downhill from the pivot. So even if you lower the COG, you have enhanced the effect it has to tip because you have added more weight to the rocking axle. It doesn't matter how much weight your loader adds, what's in it, or what you have for ballast. It also doesn't matter what size tractor you have. You can counter the effects with more ballast, but the simple physics cannot be ignored. The front end allows it to rock and there is no way this can be more stable. The basic question was whether it is more stable w/ or w/o the FEL, not whether you can fix it. And yes, I am assuming side to side stability, not up or down. Stability almost implies to me that we're talking about a sidehill.

Edit: Actually it does matter how much your loader has or what is in it. But only if you can make the entire loader weigh more than the tractor in the first place. It has to lower the center of gravity enough so that it is BELOW the front axle pivot. Then you attach your tow strap on an arm that is below the COG. I don't believe I've ever seen a tractor that meets that spec.

Edit 2: Look at it this way. For stability, do you want the tipping point be determined by the outside of the downhill rear tire, or do you want the tipping point to be determined by the front axle pivot? Any weight that you transfer off the rear end is a vote for the front axle pivot. If you want side hill stability, take the FEL off.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I believe having the FEL on can both hurt and help stability. The FEL is attached at the belly of the tractor just behind the front wheel, so this is where all the forces to the tractor are applied. Please note I mentioned the forces and not the weight. 1]Then you have 2 towers that act as lever arms, and since the FEL is sticking out in front, the force on the tower arms is such that it is trying to rotate them forward. When the tractor is stationary, this forward rotational force is the same whether the FEL is at 7 or 11 and at 8 or 10 o'clock. This is because the horizontal distance these arms reach forward is the same at both points. Therefore, this forward rotational force is greatest at 9 o'clock as it is also the greatest distance forward. However, if the tractor is sitting sideways on a hill, it is like someone attaching a tow strap to the FEL towers on the down hill side. If the bucket is as low as possible, it would be like someone pulling down on the tow strap right next to the tractor. No major sideways force here since the force pulling down on the tower is in a pretty steep angle. However, as the FEL is raised so will be the point from which this tow strap is pulled from. Thus, making it easier to roll the tractor over. Then you have momentum, which only exaggerates the forces applied when changing direction like braking, speeding up and turning. Therefore, mowing in a straight line without changing speed or direction, makes all the forces like you were sitting still. I am sure we all understand these concepts, but thought I would mention them here to help explain my following comment. If the center of gravity of the FEL is kept below the center of gravity of the tractor, it 2]can help stability. If the FEL is higher than the tractor's center of gravity, of course it will hurt it. My FEL adds about 1100 lbs to the weight of my tractor which helps with a lot of traction on those front tires. This really helps my sticking power on hills.

Two areas of your description that do not hang together.I think one is "typo". ... In the second you dont account for the reduced proportion of the composite tractor/implement weight that rests on the rears.