Dogs.

[JasperFrank]

Aside from when I was very young, and my family had pure bred bull mastiffs and earlier dash-hounds, all my own later dogs have been mixed breed, pound retrieved dogs. These earlier kennel raised pure bred dogs, as I remember, were easy to deal with. Just off the shelf, here is your dog and it will behave. All of these pound dogs I later got, had problems. I would take on the problem dogs as we lived in the country and I thought I knew enough about training dogs that they would come around. Our current dog, is the best of dogs, yet he has his issues. He is getting old and still has his issues. He can't be around other dogs at all. He will immediately attack any dog smaller than him. I believe this now to be the most difficult area of having a pound dog. Some things, you can not train them out of, cause they are sort of fixed.. Especially about them being social to other dogs.
So, for the jury to decide, do I get my last dog, after this one passes, from a breeder/trainer and not the pound? Or does it make any difference?

 

[Torvy]

Our last one was killed about the time Covid hit. Now we are holding off until next year when we are retired. I like the IDEA of getting a rescue or pound dog, but I have had a similar experience.
My personal preference is the GSD (German Shepherd Dog). We have had 3 and they are loyal,protective, energetic and smart. Training is a breeze as they truly enjoy learning. The problem is they are energetic and smart. If you don't have the time and space for them, they will get into trouble. My wife wants to get a Golden. (we will have 2 total). We've had better luck with 2 dogs at a time. Probably because they are pack animals.

Good luck to you!

 

[ronjhall]

All of my dogs have been smaller dogs. Less than 30 lbs. Many of them rescue. They all had problems. The worst was one that had to be on a leash or it ran away. None of them were biters. The last 3 dogs have been pure breds. Lhasa Apso was about 16 lbs and was attached to my wife. Loved boating. Last 2 have been Shih Tzu. Sassy is smallest dog we have owned. 8 lbs. Great lap dog. Does not hurt legs after laying on them for hours. Neither one have been barkers. Problem with them is new people are the best. I saw one explanation is if burglar broke into your house. It would show the burglar where all your jewelry is hid. They can also be fussy eaters. They also need grooming every 5 to 6 weeks. Smaller dogs tend to live longer. The last 2 lived over 15 years.
I see lots of people that have Boxers. Very loving dogs.

 

[Sigarms]

Aside from when I was very young, and my family had pure bred bull mastiffs and earlier dash-hounds, all my own later dogs have been mixed breed, pound retrieved dogs. These earlier kennel raised pure bred dogs, as I remember, were easy to deal with. Just off the shelf, here is your dog and it will behave. All of these pound dogs I later got, had problems. I would take on the problem dogs as we lived in the country and I thought I knew enough about training dogs that they would come around. Our current dog, is the best of dogs, yet he has his issues. He is getting old and still has his issues. He can't be around other dogs at all. He will immediately attack any dog smaller than him. I believe this now to be the most difficult area of having a pound dog. Some things, you can not train them out of, cause they are sort of fixed.. Especially about them being social to other dogs.
So, for the jury to decide, do I get my last dog, after this one passes, from a breeder/trainer and not the pound? Or does it make any difference?

The biggest advantage a "breeder" has is the fact that because it's a dedicated breed that perhaps someone will spend money on, the dog is generally in the home as a puppy to be raised and "molded" by the house it's living in.

I also think your generalization that "here is your dog off the shelf and it will behave" (from a breeder) is WAY off the mark and not true. The behavior has more to do with the training at an early age vs the breed itself.

Will a child in foster care who is adopted out at age 8 vs age 16 have more or less "issues" than the older child adopted out of foster care?

Ironically enough, even babies who are adopted out after being removed from their birth mother can have more issues than you realize due to separation from their mother (not including perhaps behavioral issues passed down, that's way more than I would want to get into).

That said, even siblings born and raised in the same family who have been shown the exact care, love and discipline up until age 18 can turn out to be completely two different people, one with some great traits, the other with some horrible traits.

The above 3 paragraphs can be said the same for dogs IMO.

The issue with dogs is owning one costs money. A lot of people who get dogs shouldn't own dogs in the first place IMO (why do most end up in the "pound". The other issues with dogs is training at a young. You also hit the nail on socialization.

If you look for a "rescue dog", I'd take a look at groups who foster animals. When we fostered dogs and cats in our home, some animals would be with us up to a year before we found the animal a good home. The advantage of dogs in foster care is that as someone interested in adopting the animal, you should find out all about the animals traits, both good and bad. Perhaps even a dedicated breed rescue group. Keep in mind, dealing with people sometimes can be harder than dealing with the animal.

End of the day, a shelter is the WORST environment for a dog to be in for a host of reasons and isn't conducive to good behavior.

All 6 of our dogs currently with us have been "rescues". The biggest pain in the butt dog came from my neighbor (long story), who was an idiot himself (who thank God finally moved) and I don't blame the dogs behavior on the dog, but the owner. That said, two 11 year old sisters we took in from my MIL after my FIL passed away in January of this year. They were raised in our home as puppies and adopted out to my in laws at a "puppy age". 11 years later, they can still fight with each other like grumpy old sisters LMAO

My wife and sister were raised in the same family, shown the same morals and financial training along with a host of life skills. Funny enough, my wife and her sister are nothing alike, and thankfully I married my wife and not her sister LOL I just scratch my head on how they were raised in the same house.

Good luck in your search. The safe bet is to spend good money from a great breeder, but then the rest is up to you to train the dog that will increase the odds you shouldn't have "issues". Thing is, like humans, even then I honestly believe it can be a hit or miss, because like humans, no two dogs are alike.

 

[Have tractor did travel]

Father had a pure-bred Lab. Affectionate dog. Ate feces, rolled on dead animals and ran away at the drop of a hat.
Wife and I also partial to GSD's, and get them from the pound. I feel part of my calling in life is to save dogs.
None of the dogs perfect.
Maybe, dogs, like friends, we enjoy in spite of their faults. Just as they do us.
Incidentally Jasper, as I've gotten older, I've chosen older dogs. I have a better chance to out live them We can well imagine what will happen with the last dog, after I die.

 

[RoyJackson]

We have a rescue dog now...
Although the first couple weeks were difficult, and she's been on and off with her housebreaking, she's developed in a very loving puppy (big puppy!!). Still likes to chew, and not always on her toys.
Probably the biggest problem was my wife breaking her leg...Margeaux had really bonded with Suzette, but until Suzette's up and about, we really have to be careful about access. Margeaux is still a puppy...60 lb. puppy full of puppy enthusiasm
Would we get another rescue? Yeah, I think so...

 

[sea2summit]

Sig made some good points.

I would add that breeds have traits and part of the difficulty in shelter dogs is you may not know the breed or you may know it’s X and Y but not what’s dominant. Hard to train a bird dog to guard goats as an example.

I think another part about mix breeds is you really have to figure out how much and what kind of stimulation that dog needs every day. I’ve got a Malinois now (both parents rescued through an organization dedicated to the breed so mine is unpapered) and he needs a lot of both exercise and mental stimulation EVERY DAY often twice a day or he goes bad. Other dog inside is a GSD, she could care less if she gets worked or not but she loves to work and go on runs etc. Then we’ve got the LGDs outside who come and sit and that’s about all you can train them to do but after proper exposure to critters they guard everything (although I’m pretty sure one snatches a duck from time to time). The level of drive is important to know, dog guys better than me can figure those levels out in very young dogs. Just because it’s 10 weeks old and sleeps in it’s kennel the whole time you’re at a shelter doesn’t mean it won’t be a holy terror the rest of its life due to high drive.

End of the day, I’ve had a lot of shelter dogs. I’ve had a lot of dogs I got out of the back of trucks at the super market (aging myself) and I’ve had pure bred dogs. I love qualities in each.

 

[SARG]

Without question ...... The best love money can buy.

 

[NorTracNY]

Sigarms says it's well. There are certainly some inherent traits with certain breeds, but you have to factor in individual genetics and the environment. We have had puppies and rescues. The way my wife has put it.

Puppy - They take a lot of work and cause lots of trouble that first year. But YOU are responsible for how that dog comes out more than any other factor. I have found in my limited experience the Bouchard test on GSD Error - Cookies Turned Off works. Not many people actually can get the opportunity to do this test. We got our pick of the litter of 11. Different people are better prepared to handle different behavior in dogs. Just like kids, you often need to treat them differently.

Rescue - You are inheriting someone else's problems. The dogs may be great, but many times they will have negative characteristics that the prior owners couldn't handle. We had one that killed livestock, but were able fix that. We had two that were known to have a history of escaping. That requires a lot of work, but is certainly able to be overcome too. Where to you want to put in the time and money?

 

[Alan46]

All of my dogs have been smaller dogs. Less than 30 lbs. Many of them rescue. They all had problems. The worst was one that had to be on a leash or it ran away. None of them were biters. The last 3 dogs have been pure breds. Lhasa Apso was about 16 lbs and was attached to my wife. Loved boating. Last 2 have been Shih Tzu. Sassy is smallest dog we have owned. 8 lbs. Great lap dog. Does not hurt legs after laying on them for hours. Neither one have been barkers. Problem with them is new people are the best. I saw one explanation is if burglar broke into your house. It would show the burglar where all your jewelry is hid. They can also be fussy eaters. They also need grooming every 5 to 6 weeks. Smaller dogs tend to live longer. The last 2 lived over 15 years.
I see lots of people that have Boxers. Very loving dogs.

Thanks for your story. We have 3 Shih Tzu Sgt. Pepper 17 (14 lbs) and the twins 2 years old, Sherpa (17lbs) and Karma (13 lbs) great breed. We are on our 3 set. We groom them every 6 weeks our groomer says they are the best. We think so too. The thing about having small dogs is like always have a puppy around and you know how people just love puppies. Our old guy is deaf and almost blind but we just deal with it and he only eats Fresh Pet dog food! We love our dogs

 

[ljjhouser]

I guess we all may have different beliefs about dogs. I have always had a dog. I am old and so is my dog now. But I cannot imagine being without a dog. I only get rescue dogs. I believe dogs remember things like bad treatment. With time in the beginning, they will learn, and love their new home and relationship. I have had trained bird dogs in the past. There is no assurance that they have not been mistreated by the handler. As a matter two of them have been trained. The one below, Lulu (the Brittany I have now) was trained. Then she was turned over to the dog pound because she was mishandled and because of that, afraid of men - and then would not hunt. The first time NBRAN brought her to the house, she would not come near me. Hid from me. She has the absolute best nose I have ever seen.

This is how she was when we got her. This is her box. She ate one a day.

She has had a busy day!

I told my wife - That damn dog is going to eat our furniture. I was afraid she would eat the interior of my jeep, so I bought a small create to put in the car. We learned to keep the closets closed if we wanted to keep our shoes.

But she was very smart, she learned very quickly. This is her today. She still chews, but only on her toys. She is very good, I say get into truck, she jumps into truck, stay, she moves away from gate. And many others. Only by giving her time. She is with me all the time, every where. I can't pee without her following me. And remember, was one of the best POOR behaving dogs I have ever had - and was breed and trained to hunt. Then given up as a lost cause. Any dog, in the beginning, will be some work. But the payback is immeasurable.

 

[ljjhouser]

In retrospect, I suppose the real question is this - Do you still feel like the effort to take care of and play with a dog? Not so much where the dog comes from. If not, maybe an older adopted dog. But I think an older dog may be harder to change. Best Wishes.

 

[arizona98tj]

I'm retired and there has only been a 2 year period in my life when I didn't have a dog.....the first two years of my military service. Truthfully, I've had some of the best luck with adult strays, I believe they honestly appreciate being taken in and display their affection in return. I've also had good luck with the $25 pitbull puppy bought on the street corner on a Saturday morning. I've been fortunate to usually get most of my dogs as pups but the strays were adults. I've tried the pound two times and both times the adult dog came with more baggage than one could imagine. Nowadays, around here, it costs north of $300 to get a dog from the recuse/pound. I'm not spending that kind of money on a crapshoot dog given my previous luck with them.
(The black and white is a street corner pitbull and the other is a pitbull/red doberman cross given to us as a puppy. Two of the best dogs I've ever had.)

 

[JasperFrank]

Arizoina you do directly address a thing about adopted dogs from a shelter. They cost a lot these days. Current one, costed 170 dollars, 8 years ago from the shelter. It is odd to me that one needs to buy a dog, that no one wants, and go through an interview, to pass, as a potential owner. If they don't get adopted, they get put down. Its a strange economy.

 

[ljjhouser]

I'm retired and there has only been a 2 year period in my life when I didn't have a dog.....the first two years of my military service. Truthfully, I've had some of the best luck with adult strays, I believe they honestly appreciate being taken in and display their affection in return. I've also had good luck with the $25 pitbull puppy bought on the street corner on a Saturday morning. I've been fortunate to usually get most of my dogs as pups but the strays were adults. I've tried the pound two times and both times the adult dog came with more baggage than one could imagine. Nowadays, around here, it costs north of $300 to get a dog from the recuse/pound. I'm not spending that kind of money on a crapshoot dog given my previous luck with them.
(The black and white is a street corner pitbull and the other is a pitbull/red doberman cross given to us as a puppy. Two of the best dogs I've ever had.)

Nice looking pair of dogs. Look like good friends. I used to hunt Quail (when there were places to hunt). That is why my dogs are always Brittanies. There has never been a time I could pay a couple thousand dollars for a purebred or trained hunting dog. But, I was able to adopt and hunt with our family dog. One of them (Jenny) was a great hunting dog. If they didn't hunt, they were our family dog, and that was ok.

But you are right. It was about 15 years ago I had to pay about $350 or $400 to adopt a from a rescue organization. I have had 2 from NBRAN - National Brittany Rescue. And I also thought that was expensive. That is what I paid for Lulu. In the process of adopting Lulu, I became acquinted with some of their people. Because of my location, I have volunteered to help them on occasion. Before long, I was doing home visits, picking up some dogs that were lost, pulling some our of a kill shelter before they were lost.
The first Brittany I picked up was in a near by town, Louisburg KS. The dog has come out of the woods looking for food. The homeowner was glad to see us show up. We put her in the car, and I reported her to the main office in Chicago. I was to keep the dog for a week, during which time she was scheduled for several tests, including heartworm test and spaying. The discounted rate was $113 because it was a rescue organization. Papers were also filled out so the dog could travel - The Dept of Ag. All was in order, but then the heart worm test came back Positive. She was about 14 mos old.
Because of that, the I took her to a foster care and rehab home sponsored by the organization. She was treated for heart worms - a slow process. Cost was discounted rate. $360. After foster care, (about 6-8 weeks later) AND RECOVERED from heart worms, she was again ready to travel. Filled the health papers for the Dept of Ag again. An adoption request was received and processed. The dog was then transported to the new home - from Green Forrest Ark to Phoenix, Az. I transported the first leg, from Green Forrest to Emporia Ks, about 350 miles. I also am a pilot so sometimes they can fly in a crate, depending on the dog. This Organization tries to be able to transport dogs up to 1200 miles without cost to the person receiving.

This was an educational process for me also. But I have done many. The trip from a lost stray to a healthy, evaluated (behavior dog), and placement into an exceptable home is sometimes a long and expensive trip. I am not inferring that this is always the case from a dog pound. Lulu came from the dog pound in Joplin Mo. Was transported to foster care in Green Forrest Ark.

I thought it was expensive. But to me, she has paid me back many times over a hug and laugh at a time. I realize that this is a successful story. Some are not. Yours is also a successful story of TWO dogs. That is fantastic. You may consider yourself an ordinary, run of the mill dog owner. But take my word for it, YOU ARE NOT, YOU ARE AN EXTRAODINARY dog owner who cares for his dogs. That is why they are the best dogs ever. The home visits are necessary, I have done many. One time there was a request to adopt a Husky in the Plaza are of KC, a high traffic area. It was an apartment and no fenced yard.

Sorry so long. I hope I did not say anything to offend you. That was never the intention. I know dogs from a pound see a vet first to protect others, but no more than that. I love to see people with happy dogs. And you have 2. And I think of all the dogs you have shared you life with over the many years. I bet there have been many happy dogs. The picture below is Peanut, the dog this was about, after all the work and ready to transport. Her fee was also $350. (I named her that first week) Since this Covid stuff, I don't think NBRAN is moving dogs for a while. Best wishes. Larry

 

[Sigarms]

I'm surprised at the "adopted costs".

We probably stopped fostering about 8 years ago, but the adoption fee was never more than $100, and that included spay and neuter, rabies tags and vet records. Honestly, a lot came out of our own pocket for care, but as mentioned before, owning a dog and having proper medical care is NOT cheap.

 

[Sigarms]

I've also had good luck with the $25 pitbull puppy bought on the street corner on a Saturday morning.

And the people "selling you the dog" just wanted to get rid of it, not caring what kind of home the dog would go to. Got cash? Take the dog. I have little doubt that you were a good master, the issue is most people who will shell out $25 for a "pitbull puppy" are most likely trash themselves.

Have to laugh, the dog in my avatar had way to many people who wanted to adopt her because they thought she would make a good guard dog.

That said, the dog in my avatar ended up with us because it was so hard to find a "good home" for a "bully breed" that she was one of the best dogs I've ever owned in my life. She was that good that she changed my view on the breed.

My father in law also agreed with my assessment LOL

 

[ljjhouser]

There are shelters around here that place large breed black dogs at the top of the list to be euthanized. They say large black dogs don't often get adopted. And, there are many people who put them on a chain outside as a "guard dog" and deliberately want to make them mean. I had a friend who was a mechanic where I worked. He bought a Chow puppy. Played and treated the dog rough. I told him, he may become more rough than you want as an adult. He thought it was funny and cute. At about 4 years, the dog was mean and he had to get rid of it. He could not understand why.

 

[Sigarms]

There are shelters around here that place large breed black dogs at the top of the list to be euthanized. They say large black dogs don't often get adopted.

That statistic would be accurate from our own local county shelter.

Ironically enough, one of the last dogs I brought home I found at our office right outside the airport. She is a 55lb black dog. That said, out of the 6 in our care, she is probably the least "issue" dog we have and actually has thrived in our care (I remember how she was shaking when I put her in the car to take her home LOL).

 

[ljjhouser]

That statistic would be accurate from our own local county shelter.

Ironically enough, one of the last dogs I brought home I found at our office right outside the airport. She is a 55lb black dog. That said, out of the 6 in our care, she is probably the least "issue" dog we have and actually has thrived in our care (I remember how she was shaking when I put her in the car to take her home LOL).

Nothing better than a big sweetheart dog. It is easy to look at a dog that is big and claim it is "Vicious." But is simply is not true. Puppies, like baby people are not born "vicious." They all form based external circumstances with the exception of a very small percentage of mental problems. Maybe, every once in a while a dog may be a mental issue.
But, if someone put me outside in the snow and ice without food on a chain and beat me, then they better not close their eyes around me because I would be a "Mental Issue" and their axxss would be grass. ha.

In thinking of animals and size, I was talking to someone who rode horses all her life. (I don't know much about horses). I mentioned - most horses are really big. It is amazing they let anyone ride them. She told me "Oh no, because of the size and shape of their eyes, they see everything magnified about 8 times. They see us as very big. Interesting.