Buying Advice Done with hydrostatics

[4570Man]

and or at less RPM's

Glad pulling a little faster makes you feel better. I guess mowing around trees a little faster, doing loader work a little easier, doing precise movements a lot better counts for nothing?

 

[ruffdog]

Glad pulling a little faster makes you feel better. I guess mowing around trees a little faster, doing loader work a little easier, doing precise movements a lot better counts for nothing?

The neighbor has a Allis D17, Ferguson, and a WD. They work great out in the field raking or baling hay but they sure are a pain in tight quarters. My wife could easily move my Boomer in close quarters while I was high in the bucket. That would not happen with a stick shift tractor...NO WAY!

 

[VroomVroom]

I haven't read this whole discussion. I haven't owned personally a hydrostatic rig with a lot of hours on it. I have just a small 28 hp hst tractor. However I did work on logging equipment for half a dozen years. Most of the equipment we were running were hydrostatic. The forwarders we had were 8 wheeled, with 4 half tracks all around. They would carry 25 tons over stumps and mud in extreme conditions. The Harvestor process I used, which cut the trees down, limbed them, and cut them to 8 foot lengths before piling them were hydrostatic, going up and down the sides of the mountains cutting pulp. The skidders they used were also hydrostatic, after using the old 230 jd timberjacks for many years, the new equipment was hydrostatic. They never had an issue with the equipment and they were used in much more extreme conditions then any farm tractor is used. It all seemed to work fine. The harvestors worked 24/7 all year. Never seemed to be an issue with that stuff.

 

[daugen]

Personal satisfaction can come at the expense of efficiency. Once upon a time we all knew we lost a couple mpg by buying an automatic trans in our car, but the
ease of driving was so much better we said fine, lose a little efficiency. Now of course the whole trans efficiency game has flipped around, automatics are usually EPA rated
higher, due to better efficiency than any human control can provide. Commercial equipment changed to "automatic" for a host of good reasons.

We truly have been replaced by robots. And as far as transmissions, I'm ok with that. But for my "fun" car?
Never an automatic. If you've ever tried to get rubber, well ok, a chirp, in second gear with a blue flame six and a three on the tree in the Sixties, you will understand the fun of shifting.
A close friend in high school had a 442 with the Hurst automatic, always wished he had gotten the stick. There's a shoe for every foot.
Take a retired trucker coming out of a RoadRanger trans, well he's likely to want a quad range manual. Or maybe not...maybe he just had enough of shifting after all those years.

I'm a retired senior with very bad arthritis. Hydrostatic is an enabler for me, it allows me to do things I'd never be able to do
for any extended period of time, like loader work. My all manual no reverser MF2615 is great fun to drive, and utterly wears me out after extended hours in the field.
My Kubota is like driving my car, though their standard seat is awful...(hearing this Kubota?)

I also have three different treadle designs to deal with, we all know Kubota and JD do it very differently, well MF's little Iseki has a tiny little reverse pedal behind your foot, frankly
not very ergonomic but maybe the whole thing was designed for a 120 pound guy, not my large frame. So each time I sit down I have to stop and think.
I remember a sign somewhere that said that...

I change the trans oil in my equipment usually at 300 to 500 hours with synthetic if allowed and basically figure it will go forever. Never had a failure, but then I don't pull heavy
loads or work equipment all that hard. Many of you do. Lot of folks pull things with their zero turns. I usually cringe when I see that.
Sometimes the equipment just isn't designed for what you are doing with it.

 

[Texasmark]

If the mower wasn't to run at vairous speeds there wouldn't be a movable throttle...a on-off choke lever, yes or priming bulb. Small engines are that way on the cheap ones.....has more to do with cost rather than required performance (opinion on that).

Fans are flywheel connected so cooling air is proportional to engine rpm as is heat generated.

HST trannys are fluid controlled variable ratio power transfer mechanisms. Power (work, consumption of energy) out = power in - losses.

On running the pedal to the metal, you are running a 1:1 type gear ratio with no range selector and ranges with ranges...just limiting the variance per range selected. Engine torque is what drives the rear wheels. If you let off the ground speed pedal, you "shift gears" and the engine torque is multiplied like is the case with metallic geared trannys in a lower gear. So for climbing hill, mowing through thick grass, easy on the pedal, keep the pump spooling. Smooth level surface, or short, thin grass, pedal to the metal if you want and lay the ears back.

 

[fitterski]

Gazooks! What a wonderful full-throttle RANT. Wish I could write half as well.
Would stay and chat, but gotta go help my buddy rebuild the carb on his 1970 Chevy PU. I should have never sold him that truck.....
rScotty

my oldest son beat me to it but I also am planning something like this, maybe more along the lines of a diesel rat pickup, my triple carb days being long gone )))

 

[crashz]

Oh wow! That is a sweet C10!!

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Want.

The "Possum Creek" painted on the door is priceless.

 

[fitterski]

Want..

git in line!

The "Possum Creek" painted on the door is priceless.

THAT may have been on it when bought, I don't know but I'll find out. The little bugger when he was just a wee lad I would bend down almost to my knees and tap him on the head "how's dad's little son today?" Now around 6 foot 13 and with arms like my WAIST he does exactly the same thing to me

 

[fitterski]

Oh wow! That is a sweet C10!!

Y'oughta see the paint! Painstakingly antiqued and then multi clear-coated. It's a jewel. I'm thinking of setting him up with a few ladies, you know? "Video for truck" sorta deal.

 

[fitterski]

THAT may have been on it when bought, I don't know but I'll find out. The little bugger when he was just a wee lad I would bend down almost to my knees and tap him on the head "how's dad's little son today?" Now around 6 foot 13 and with arms like my WAIST he does exactly the same thing to me

He bought it like that, doesn't know if was the original paint job or not. He's swapped out the entire drivetrain but left the appearance close to what it was ...and he's a long way from fini$hing it.

 

[ruffdog]

Fans are flywheel connected so cooling air is proportional to engine rpm as is heat generated.

Well, that is sorta correct. The problem is, these engines are governed so the throttle is connected to the governor, not the carb or fuel pump. You may have the "throttle" at half speed, but under load, the governor is WIDE open. In this instance, the cooling fan is at half speed but the engine is wide open and making max heat. Part throttle should not be used under a load.

 

[4570Man]

Well, that is sorta correct. The problem is, these engines are governed so the throttle is connected to the governor, not the carb or fuel pump. You may have the "throttle" at half speed, but under load, the governor is WIDE open. In this instance, the cooling fan is at half speed but the engine is wide open and making max heat. Part throttle should not be used under a load.

I’m not understanding how that works. The engine can’t be at max output and only 1/2 speed unless max power happens at max speed which it doesn’t for air cooled gas motors.

 

[ruffdog]

I’m not understanding how that works. The engine can’t be at max output and only 1/2 speed unless max power happens at max speed which it doesn’t for air cooled gas motors.

The governor tries to maintain the rpm that the hand throttle is set at. If there is a higher load, like deeper grass, the governor will have to increase the throttle to achieve that same rpm. So, it is possible to operate at half RPM but the governor has the engine at WOT.

 

[ruffdog]

How a small engine governor works:
How does a small engine governor work? | Briggs & Stratton

Also, if your engine has a oil pump that has higher output related to rpm, you might be at WOT but at a lower oil pressure because the rpm is at a lower speed.

 

[fitterski]

There's been discussion about cooling problems on these trans-axles, that the fan on the drive pulley is there for that. IT of course is a 25 cent piece of plastic, what would seem no less useful are the more expensive cooling fins on the axle housing, of which on my Hydro-Gear trans-axle there are NONE.

Another tid-bit, I drained the oil and contrary to what the dealer had told me (clean & full) it was pitch black and about 1.95 litres in all. There was no foaming nor any sign of water contamination. I refilled with new oil to absolutely no avail, I can hear the pump/or-motor cavitating same as before and there's still no explanation as to how this can come about during one winter of sitting still.

More, one of my neighbours had the same problem with another make and threw it out last year. She's a widow and is now contracting out instead, I had thought she was just fed up with bouncing around in the sun with a mower herself. Not so.

 

[fitterski]

The governor tries to maintain the rpm that the hand throttle is set at. If there is a higher load, like deeper grass, the governor will have to increase the throttle to achieve that same rpm. So, it is possible to operate at half RPM but the governor has the engine at WOT.

Everyone who has operated a mower can tell from the sound when the thing is biting more than it should. With a regular transmission and no governor you then ease off on throttle which unloads the blades and slows down the machine. With a governor and a trans-axle you ease off on the speed pedal which reduces the bite and accomplishes more or less the same thing. The governor is nothing more than an rpm biased/governed throttle, the user sets the governor instead of the throttle. Throttle position NEVER determines the rpm, governor or no governor, you need the combination of throttle position AND load for that. It's like torque, the engine may be able to develop it but without resistance there can be no torque.

 

[ruffdog]

^^^^?

 

[fitterski]

^^^^?

The governor sets an rpm command, it will maintain it IF it can depending on the load. The rpm is determined by throttle position and load, not by the governor. When you hear it overloading and usually shuddering you reduce speed which reduces the feed rate i.e. the load and then the rpm command can again be satisfied under the new lesser load.

 

[searcyfarms]

I have had 4 hydros since 1991, never a problem with ANY of them, 3 fords, one deere the two early fords were eatons/Tecumseh gear box - not sure on the 3rd ford nor what model is in the deere. The unknown ford hydro was a GT75 and the Deere is a 2210 - changed their fluid/filters and all had/have fans for cooling on their drive shafts. No way you could ever talk me into going back to a gear shift - I never once thought about engine speed - have used them all for gardening/pulling loads from wagons to tillers - dragging/blading - mowing - loader work - so they have been used and never an issue. I do think the smaller uncooled, non heavy duty units are prone to issues, my sister purchased a zero turn deere from home depot and they have replaced 3 hydros in it in 3 yrs - they are mowing 4 acres and I just don't think that deere was made for that.