Dozer vs Tractor w/ dozer blade

[TractorBob1529]

I have a dilema. I am moving alot of dirt. Digging a moving is covered, but I really have no way to spread and pack the dirt that is dumped. I have been looking to buy a small dozer to fill my needs, but I also a have a MF1529 CUT. I have come across an older Case 310 dozer and the guy wants $2500.00 and I also come across a MF1405 subframe dozer for the MF1529 for $1800.00. The question is what would be better?

My Pros/Cons:
Case 310 - Alot of work time/money to get running right, but it's a dozer w/ 6-way blade and can push more
MF1529 w/1405 blade - Cheaper, but is lighter not pushing as much and unstable at steeper grade.

Those are my thoughs. Is any one setup better than the other or will it get the job done?

 

[cycle_gator]

How much needs to be done to the C310? Unless it is a total basket case or the running gear is worn beyond recognition, it is hard to beat a dozer with a 6-way blade for moving a lot of dirt around.

 

[scoutcub]

If given a choice between the 2, I would go with the dozer. Can move much more material, pack better, and more stable on slopes. The dozer can rough spread the material, and you can finish grade with your box blade and land plane. And, for the MF dozer blade, wouldn't you have to remove the loader? Using the loader for digging/moving?
Have you already tried using the box blade to spread? Perhaps just not moving enough?
Do you have other heavy equipment doing the digging and moving, or is this a project you're "picking" at with the MF?
Another option would be to rent, for $2500 you can rent a newer dozer with 6 way blade and joysticks, and a roller. If you can get all the material in place at once....?
I've got a small dozer and love the versatility.

Good luck!

 

[tessiers]

There really is no comparison, a crawler can push more and do it faster. Crawler maintenance is a whole nother game. Throw a track and all the fun of the day is out the window. Break something in the undercairage and you may end up with scrap, If I were buying one I would be real careful about checking it over especially for $2500. I would either rent, or buy the crawler. I guess it would also depend on what you consider a lot of material and what the material is, 100 yds I would make do with what I had, 1000 yards I would think about another way. I don't think you would be much better with the blade than you are with the bucket on a compact tractor. Only other comment I would venture is you will not get good compaction with a case 310, it is not heavy enough and has very little ground pressure, great little crawler and well suited for moving dirt but not great for compaction of materials.

 

[Rustyiron]

Have you thought about hiring it out? If that is a no go, I'd say rental would be the next best option.

 

[Carl_NH]

I agree with Tessiers 100-200 yards use your tractor. 1000 yards, hire a dozer for a day or two.

BUT if this material is coming in at a rate of 100 yards a day for 10 days , the 1529 will get a workout.

The dozer doesn't compact as much as your machine, and if you are filling over time - say 2-3 weeks, this allows rain for compaction and driving on it with your 1529 will compact more over time.


Spreading a lot of material and compaction are two separate functions so for instance if you are building a retaining wall and compacting loads of materials to eventually build a structure - needs to be very solid.

IF you are filling an area were you mow the grass or graze animals and are willing to deal with settling that's a different story,

 

[tessiers]

My point on compaction was if you are running a JD 750 size machine you will get compaction from traveling over an area, the little 310 just won't do it.

 

[MBTRAC]

Old Dozers can be a lot heartache & spanner spinning, & any dozer ownership is high cost/maintenance - we own various dozers for our farms & earthmoving business, & without doubt ownership is not for the faint hearted or those with empty wallets......there's no such thing as a "cheap" dozer, only well maintained good dozers or money pits...

All depends on what you consider to be a lot of dirt , how far you intend pushing it/ground conditions & how much compactation you require ?
IMO hire it out unless you are an experienced dozer operator & familar with slot dozing methods to max productivity (in which case renting may be an option)........if you have any significant volume of dirt the novelty of owning/operating a Case310 is going to wear out pretty quickly........

If it was me:
- for a samller job I'd firstly consider hiring/renting a larger c.100hp CTL (Compact Track Loader) which is at a min. 5x more efficient/faster than a Case310 dozer, the downside is the rubber tracks don't provide much compacation but will leave a far better finish than dozer grousers.
- & a large job/deemed to be more economical to do myself I'd buy a mid-size industrial 4x4 loader (something like a Cat 922 /Case W9) which is a whole lot easier to work on & cost about 1/3 or less than a dozer to run/maintain to do the bulk spreading/levelling (having the dirt moved/dumped evenly across the site amkes the exercise a lot easier/economical) then final finish with a box blade (or depending on the site size maybe hire it out to a SP Grader).

As for adapting/using a CUT or Ag tractor in continuous heavy dozer pushing operations it's too big an ask for most machines & stress cracking/metal fatigue is normally the result.......

 

[TractorBob1529]

I kind of knew the answer when I asked the question, but I had to ask.
I have a great volume of dirt to move. I would be easier and less stressful to hire somebody out, but it goes back to no funds for the project.

The project is moving dirt from a hill and filling up a valley to get some usuable level land at each place. The hill is almost a mountain side really.
I have and excavator to dig the dirt, a good size dump truck to move the dirt, now I need a way to push and level the dirt in the valley.
I have been keeping an eye on a a good used dozer, but those are $6k plus. That's why I am looking at the Case 310...more of my price range so I had to ask the question.
I would love to have CTL, but it will be next year before I can consider a major purchase. That would be another year of not getting this project done.

 

[TractorBob1529]

Here are some pictures of what I am trying to do.

 

[pjbci]

I think a 2500$ dzr is going to be a maintence nightmare. I would get the front blade for your tractor. You will find it very handy. Take your time and you can move a mountian with it.

 

[crazyal]

I found that an older dozer doesn't have to be a money pit. There are things that you can do that limit the wear on them. If it was for a business then I wouldn't want anything but a good running machine. But for my home my older 450 has been great. Avoid mud, it takes it's toll on the undercarriage. So does using the dozer on the side of a hill, level ground and pushing down a hill are best. Pushing up is hard on the pins and pushing sideways on a slope is asking for trouble with almost everything underneath. One thing to remember is that you can sell it after you've done what you needed so maybe a $6k dozer would just be a temporary out of pocket expense.

 

[scoutcub]

Understand a bit better now with the additional info.
Keep in mind....what a lot of guys do is buy the big piece of equipment, do the job, and sell it.....which fits into your situation exactly. If you can swing spending the money for XX amount of time. A $2500 dollar dozer may very well require some additional $$. A 6 or 10K dozer may or may not. All depends how much you want to risk. I took a chance on a Komatsu with 6500 hours at an auction about 3-4 years ago.....and I've spent 500 bucks on it, and done a LOT of work with it. And I could sell it now for at least what I paid for it, probably more.

Good luck!

 

[TractorBob1529]

This has been a long term project, not meaning to be going on 4 years now. I stared out with no level land and couldn't open the back door without hitting the bank. I'm about ready to get it over with and move on to the next big project. Having limited funds leaves you to work with what you got. Even a bigger tractor might be an improvement sometime. Decisions, decisions!

Well, thanks eveyone for their input, I know I can alway turn to you guys on this forum if I have equipment questions.

 

[Arc weld]

Rent a skid steer or hire one. Wouldn't take too much to out work a 310 Case.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Rent a skid steer or hire one. Wouldn't take too much to out work a 310 Case.

Agreed, the larger skid steers are what basically replaced the small dozer and crawler loader in this country.

That said, you aren't going to buy much of a skid steer for $2500, so maybe it's worth the risk on the 310 Case. If you pretty good with wrenches and have a decent area to work on it I might try it. Just be sure to give it a good workout before you buy it, run it for at least 30-40min under real world working conditions.

 

[TractorBob1529]

The guy backed out on the Case 310 dozer. Does anyone here have any experience with a dozer blade on a tractor? I'm trying to see if it's worth my time an money to buy the dozer blade for the tractor and do the light dirt work. It has to be better than the FEL? The blade has hyd hookups for I guess the up/down movement and the angle. Thoughs or comments

 

[pjbci]

Daddy bought a 10 ft dozer blade for our 105 hp tractor in the mid 70's. We used it all the time for nearly 30 yrs for dirt work, pushing silage and light clearing until i bought a dozer. I know this is not the same size as your machine but i picture it being just as handy to have around.

 

[Rustyiron]

It takes "tonage" to push a blade full of dirt. Dozers (blades) that are designed to carry dirt are in a "U" or simi U configuration. I just don't think you'd be happy with a flat, lightweight blade on a 3500# tractor. Not downing your machine at all, but for pushing as much material as you describe, and the price of the blade, you may as well pick at it with your tractor fel & box blade. Now that blade you describe would prolly be real nice for finish grading (1" minus cuts) but it just is not heavy enough to do what you describe, the slightest down pressure on the blade will make your 4wd inefective real fast. Ever noticed how when using your fel, that slight uplift when loading your bucket transfers a bunch of weight onto your front axle giving you some good "grunt" into the pile? You will not see this effect with the dozer blade on your tractor, if anything, the opposite, or what I described above will ocour.

 

[MBTRAC]

IMO I wouldn't be wasting my $ on fitting a dozer blade on a 30hp tractor & particularly after looking at the photo's of what you're trying to achieve - heavy pushing with dozer blades causes all sort of drama's/fatigure on Ag tractors.

Sure we've had & currently have Ag tractors with blades & they're a cost effective alternative to industrial dozers in light clearing /silage applications...etc, but pushing dirt day in day out is too big an ask.....even with some of our heavy duty set up's (as pictured) I wouldn't be tempted.

Instead given you're on a limited budget use a 3PL HD Grader Blade on your tractor (it'll keep more of the push load on the implement, rather than like a front mounted dozer transferring direct torsional loads to the tractor.....) ideally with offset/angle/tilt adjustment which will keep the tractor further from edge of the undulation you're trying to fill - & unlike a front mounted dozer blade (which will require constant foward/reverse direction changes) should make the exercise a lot quicker provided you can safely dump material (in a low fairly even row rather than single dump piles) close to the fill site, then it's a relatively simple matter of running the tractor/grader parallel to level & (more safely) move material over the edge (or grade the site level using the rotational arc method of grading to again move excess material to the edge & into the fill site.

Also below is a photo of IMO the ideal 3PL grader blade for this task with offset/angle/tilt adjustments & blade bolt on end caps which helps carry/flow the material off the blade in these types of applications (offset, angle the blade back, slight tilt, fit one end cap to th opposite end & the material will roll/flow along the blade easily using less hp & wear/tear on the equipment):-