DRAFT CONTROL How does it work?

[MtnViewRanch]

I was typing while Brian was typing. I consider him a master with his BB. If he says draft control improves BB function, I believe it

Thanks Richard, while I am fairly good with my box blade, I consider myself VERY GOOD with the rear blade. Every implement excels at what it was originally designed for, just as do the different features on our tractors.

I understand that many draft control systems work in just a slightly different way. Richard, you do not use your position control at all when using the draft setting?

I ask because I use both. After setting the desired sensitivity on the 3pt,(typically the most sensitive for me when finish grading) I use the position control to get the desired depth and set that lever. Then set the draft lever so that it just ever so slightly wants to start to raise the implement. (this also affects the sensitivity setting on my tractor) Set the draft lever at that point.

From that point on the draft is set and not touched until it is no longer needed. I use the position control to raise and lower the implement back to it's desired setting at the end of each run. In fact the manual specifically says to not use the draft function to raise the implement and to not have the implement raised for an extended period of time without disengaging the draft control lever, which is easy enough to do, just push the draft lever all the way forward in the down position. ( Draft stop is on the upside of the lever)

Anyway, just wondering, sounds like completely different draft systems, which leads back to my number one recommendation for everyone, READ THE OWNERS MANUAL.

 

[Rustyiron]

Brian, is that with your big "plane" or just a rear blade?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian & Richard, for this post d/c = draft control
For plowing - say your in some nice topsoil and run into a section of hard clay, shale, what ever. The d/c raises up the hitch until the "resistance" (in the d/c) is the same as your setting in the nice topsoil. The plowing depth does change. What influences the d/c is the pressure on the top link at the tractor and that is a result of loading and the depth (of cut) is the "fix" right?

And Brian, I could see "roughing in" a new grade using d/c, but for finish grade?
I am not questioning you guy's at all, actually the opposite, but the above has been my thinking for a long time, it makes (mechanical) sence to me. But then, I was never really taught the proper use. Edgumcate me Thnx.

When I say finish grade, I'm making at most a 1" cut. You want everything to be the same height, no or at least very small variations. Well you are not moving a ton of material, the tractor does this quite easily. Actually probably not even needed in a lot of circumstances, but then pops up a difficult area, the blade lifts about 1/8" (decreasing the cutting load by 12 1/2%) and you continue on your way never even knowing that there was a difficult area being dealt with.

Now when making 2-3" cuts, then the sensitivity needs to go way down so that it takes a lot more load to initiate the hitch to raise , but again, the implement typically does not get raised a lot other than if an unmovable object is encountered.

As an example, if the tractor has the capability to pull 5000lbs and it is doing just that with a 3" cut and the ground gets tough, the implement raises 1/2", that just lowers the draft put on the tractor by over 800lbs and the tractor continues on without even slowing down.

In your example of topsoil and clay, assuming that you know that the clay is there, you either do that area separately or set the depth of the plow shallower so that the tractor can handle the load. The tractor can only handle so much, removing the draft sensing is not going to increase the tractors capabilities assuming that you have the draft control properly set. If you needed that area to be plowed to a specific depth, and that depth is more than what the tractor is capable of doing in a single pass, then it has to be done multiple times , doesn't matter if you are using draft control or not, the tractor can only do so much at any one certain time.

I have gone over this time and time again with some old timers. Draft control is only for plowing. All I can say is that I use it when grading and it sure makes things a lot better and easier for me, and that is a simple fact. :thumbsup:

 

[Industrial Toys]

Maybe I don't understand. But what makes the arms come down again? Presumeably, pushing on the top link makes the arms go up only.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian, is that with your big "plane" or just a rear blade?

Both, although typically I only use it with the LPGS on our roads if the ground is on the very damp side. Now out in an open field with damp ground it is great. Because of the damp ground I can collect and carry about 3 yards of dirt and then deposit it in the low areas. The draft control allows for that collection and then keeps the load light enough that I can easily continue moving along to the desired drop location. I have evened out several acres in this manor.

I prefer to use the dozer for this type of work, but if the area is very large, the dozer is very slow in reverse. Sort of depends on where the dirt is that is getting moved and where it is that it is getting moved to.

As far as with the rear blade, I would say that I use the draft control about half the time with it.

 

[bcp]

Maybe I don't understand. But what makes the arms come down again? Presumeably, pushing on the top link makes the arms go up only.

Gravity does it, working on the implement weight, and sometimes the implement "wants" to go down (a plow, for example, tries to go down as it is pulled forward, due to the shape ).

Bruce

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Maybe I don't understand. But what makes the arms come down again? Presumeably, pushing on the top link makes the arms go up only.

Exactly, and when that pressure is relieved, the arms go back down to the preset level. It's an internal valving mechanism that you have pre set using the control levers on the right of the seat.

 

[k0ua]

Thanks Richard, while I am fairly good with my box blade, I consider myself VERY GOOD with the rear blade. Every implement excels at what it was originally designed for, just as do the different features on our tractors.

I understand that many draft control systems work in just a slightly different way. Richard, you do not use your position control at all when using the draft setting?

I ask because I use both. After setting the desired sensitivity on the 3pt,(typically the most sensitive for me when finish grading) I use the position control to get the desired depth and set that lever. Then set the draft lever so that it just ever so slightly wants to start to raise the implement. (this also affects the sensitivity setting on my tractor) Set the draft lever at that point.

From that point on the draft is set and not touched until it is no longer needed. I use the position control to raise and lower the implement back to it's desired setting at the end of each run. In fact the manual specifically says to not use the draft function to raise the implement and to not have the implement raised for an extended period of time without disengaging the draft control lever, which is easy enough to do, just push the draft lever all the way forward in the down position. ( Draft stop is on the upside of the lever)

Anyway, just wondering, sounds like completely different draft systems, which leads back to my number one recommendation for everyone, READ THE OWNERS MANUAL.

This ^^ is how my manual describes using the function.

To CM. To answer your questions about the holes on the DK40se Top hole no draft action, fixed, doesn't move. middle hole, not as sensitive as the bottom hole, but heavy draft load would activate the system. Lower hole most sensitive. Keep in mind this is JUST how our Kioti's are built, not ALL tractors. The stupid owners manual is full of extremely stupid Korean to English translation and doesn't tell you anything about which hole to use that Americans can understand. I hope this helps.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

For me, it really really helped me to understand with the manual in my hand and the tractor in front of me.

Did first step, then the second and so on. Once you see how things work, it's much easier to understand and then put to use.

Like I said before, figure out how to use it and then with some experimenting with where to have those settings and you can do some wonderful work without much work. Anyone that has draft control and knows how to use it has no need for gauge wheels on their implements.

Something about working smarter, not harder. If the capabilities are there, why not make use of them.

Of course all this goes out the window when using a tractor without draft control.

 

[bcp]

Of course all this goes out the window when using a tractor without draft control.

It all went out the window with my BX. No draft control, no position control, no individual brakes, no tough underbody, no weight, etc., but it meets my needs now.

Bruce

 

[npalen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvtFPwNPgAE

Somewhat interesting video showing how the old geezer can lift a three bottom plow with one hand. He cheats using draft control.

We had an 8N Ford tractor on the farm that came with a 2 bottom 14" plow. We never used it for plowing as it couldn't hold adequate depth without running out of traction. I'm of the opinion that using draft control for moldboard plowing would be fine if the tractor had enough power to maintain depth in spite of varying soil draft conditions.

The draft control MIGHT help protect the implement if an immovable object was encountered. Moldboard plowing needs to be done at a constant depth based on experience. Letting the plow rise and fall according to draft will result in uneven ground and failure to bury crop residue and weeds that are the reason for plowing in the first place. A plowing depth of 6" was considered absolute minimum otherwise you were "chicken scratching".

 

[ovrszd]

Maybe I don't understand. But what makes the arms come down again? Presumeably, pushing on the top link makes the arms go up only.

The implement's builtin design that causes it to cut deeper. Very obvious with a moldboard plow.

 

[ovrszd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvtFPwNPgAE

Somewhat interesting video showing how the old geezer can lift a three bottom plow with one hand. He cheats using draft control.

We had an 8N Ford tractor on the farm that came with a 2 bottom 14" plow. We never used it for plowing as it couldn't hold adequate depth without running out of traction. I'm of the opinion that using draft control for moldboard plowing would be fine if the tractor had enough power to maintain depth in spite of varying soil draft conditions.

The draft control MIGHT help protect the implement if an immovable object was encountered. Moldboard plowing needs to be done at a constant depth based on experience. Letting the plow rise and fall according to draft will result in uneven ground and failure to bury crop residue and weeds that are the reason for plowing in the first place. A plowing depth of 6" was considered absolute minimum otherwise you were "chicken scratching".

Realize there are many types of soils.

I learned how to plow on an 8N with 2 bottom plow using draft control. Literally plowed hundreds of acres with it. Yes there might be areas where it only plowed 3 or 4" deep. That was all the tractor could handle. Wasn't the fault of draft control. Actually just the opposite. Without draft control it would have been a hopeless battle between tractor/operator against stubborn soil.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvtFPwNPgAE

Somewhat interesting video showing how the old geezer can lift a three bottom plow with one hand. He cheats using draft control.

We had an 8N Ford tractor on the farm that came with a 2 bottom 14" plow. We never used it for plowing as it couldn't hold adequate depth without running out of traction. I'm of the opinion that using draft control for moldboard plowing would be fine if the tractor had enough power to maintain depth in spite of varying soil draft conditions.

The draft control MIGHT help protect the implement if an immovable object was encountered. Moldboard plowing needs to be done at a constant depth based on experience. Letting the plow rise and fall according to draft will result in uneven ground and failure to bury crop residue and weeds that are the reason for plowing in the first place. A plowing depth of 6" was considered absolute minimum otherwise you were "chicken scratching".

Not questioning you, but everyone can't always afford that machine capability, so making multiple passes is a requirement.

 

[npalen]

Thinking back to my post, I didn't give the 8N a very good rap. Our 8N was the farm workhorse and was called on to do many jobs for which a larger tractor was not practical. It many times served in the role of what today's ATV or UTV would be used for including rounding up cattle. It's a wonder we didn't get hurt on it as it served as our "hotrod" also. Used to hook a chain to the top link attachment area and see how high we could get the front end off the ground. Was that not asking for trouble or worse?

 

[ovrszd]

Thinking back to my post, I didn't give the 8N a very good rap. Our 8N was the farm workhorse and was called on to do many jobs for which a larger tractor was not practical. It many times served in the role of what today's ATV or UTV would be used for including rounding up cattle. It's a wonder we didn't get hurt on it as it served as our "hotrod" also. Used to hook a chain to the top link attachment area and see how high we could get the front end off the ground. Was that not asking for trouble or worse?

Yep, my Brother and I played those games a lot. Ours had an over/under trans. Man that thing would go down the road!!! I actually got stopped by the town marshal and told to slow it down one day while in town getting a load of feed!!!!

People down play those old Fords. But look what their competition was. Wayyyyyy more productive than the other brands that weren't even offered with a 3pt.

 

[TomSeller]

Somewhat interesting video showing how the old geezer can lift a three bottom plow with one hand. He cheats using draft control.

The kid in the video did cheat using draft control

 

[TomSeller]

The original purpose of Draft Control was to keep plows encountering underground obstructions from pivoting tractors on their rear axles into a vertical orientation.
.

A plow tip hitting an obstruction pushes the front wheels down since it is below the rear axle. Pulling something from above the rear axle tends to do as you describe, potentially flipping the tractor over.

 

[TomSeller]

IMO a box blade sitting on the ground has very little top link "effort" and I don't think would influence the draft control at all. It came on all of my tractors over the years, and have never hooked up to a more than a single bottom plow in a large garden situation. I have "played" with it and ultimately did not use it. I wanted a consistant depth (deep) turning of the soil. I think that their (draft control) origins were from the days of lower HP tractors and multiple 3pt. mounted plows. But that only a guess.
I would be curious to hear from someone that actually uses this function. It seems to me that they might as well put an 8 track tape player on a tractor, just as usefull:laughing:
I like k0ua's explanation.

I agree that using a box blade while grading a hard gravel driveway puts little variation on the pressure on the top link.

However, while moving soil, there can be significant pressure on the top link to the point it will function a little like a land plane, leveling out the soil. When doing this I had to increase the draft quite a bit.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I agree that using a box blade while grading a hard gravel driveway puts little variation on the pressure on the top link.

However, while moving soil, there can be significant pressure on the top link to the point it will function a little like a land plane, leveling out the soil. When doing this I had to increase the draft quite a bit.

Agree, but need to emphasize HARD On hard ground, remove the top link and see what happens, then do the same where the ground is softer and the cutting edge can actually cut in.

To anyone that actually tries this, do it very slow, or you may not like the results.