Drainage Experts Needed

[Egon]

nobull1:

Tilled drainage, dry well, real good landscaping and a hidden sump pump outlet for those wet days. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Course we could also dig a central pond, stock some fish and do a real neat ladscape job with bridges, islands,duck feeding platforms, shrubs, cattails, flowers and a gazebo with barbaque. Also gotta throw in a firehill and a fountain. Would make for a nice place for birds. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Think there is a possibility for some intriquing options here as there is just enough land to get real serious on landscaping. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Highbeam]

I caught the large parcel refernce also. In this day of creating new 8500 SF building lots in the cities, 6 acres can feel large. Until you've been exposed to folks who actullay own several thousand acres it is hard to imagine large.

After thinking about this last night, I would say that unless you plan major regrading of the site you should tile the whole thing. That is likely why the ditches are along the edge of your lot and it will make the work pretty simple. Depending on the makup of your soil above the clay, you could likely get away with simly ditch witching and laying all the perf pipe in native soil. Many farmers do that here in the valley muck. A ditch witch works fast in rockless soil going in a straight line, and with digging depths just into that clay layer. Rolls of pre-socked perf pipe are sold at home depot for little money. Quick and cheap. Your 5 acres, if square, is only 511 feet across. With good deep ditches on three sides you can simply run a bunch of individual lines the ditch without connectors and mains.

Wait until it is dry this summer so that your trenches don't cave and so you don't sink the ditcher. For an extra bonus, you can backfill the trench with sand but that is lots of extra work. The ultimate system is hoe dug and uses drain rock but now you're talking big machines, imported material, and having to dispose of the trench spoils by spreading.

Have you asked your neighbors what they do? Local farmers can be pretty smart and might have the ideal solution.

 

[JoeR]

Here in Florida we have similar issues with hardpan suspending water from draining. Do like Walt Disney did 30 years ago. Plant pine trees in all the wetland areas. After 30 years it will be dry since the pine trees punch a tap root through the clay. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Of course, you may not have that much time. Personally, I have small pockets of drainage issues, not entire pastures. I have used my auger to help breakup the hardpan. If I have a whole pasture with problems, then I would be out breaking up the soil. Even with clay 24" down, you would not believe how much moisture soil can absorb after running a disc. Turning up the first 8 inches will do wonders if the soil has become compacted. I recently ran the disc in my back pasture, and now I never see standing water. Hurricanes are the exception. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Highbeam]

Or then there's the ground like we have here where well logs show the clay running down 60 feet. Going down ain't an option. If indeed you have something permeable like sand or gravel beneath the clay layer then bust through that thing to create a drywell. That underlying ground being sealed by the clay roof will have very high capacity to accept water.

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Or then there's the ground like we have here where well logs show the clay running down 60 feet. Going down ain't an option. If indeed you have something permeable like sand or gravel beneath the clay layer then bust through that thing to create a drywell. That underlying ground being sealed by the clay roof will have very high capacity to accept water. )</font>

I learned something from your message.

Where I live, there are pockets of sand & gravel & muck/ peat, but the yellow clay goes about 120 feet deep - the glacial period scraped it all off of Canada & dropped it here.

So, I never understood how, why, or what for a drywell would be good for? 'Here' it would just basically be a cistern. It would fill with water, and - sit there, full of water, for weeks. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So, there are soil profiles where such a contraption would work. Thanks for explaining that!

Here we have the 'hardpan' layer, it is tipically 8-10 inches deep. It is created by smearing the clay & compacting it with plowing, cultivator sweep shovels, etc.

--->Paul

 

[Highbeam]

Oh yes, there are places where a layer of clay exists above a layer of good granular soils.

In fact, if you don't mind a story, I work in a valley between Mt. Rainier and the puget sound. The valley floor has good surface soil with an impermeable layer of clay/hardpan of some thickness below. Beneath that impermeable layer is a layer of good flowing sand and gravel, this condition extends horizontally a long ways up towards the mountain where it is fed by glaciers and snow pack. Anyway, if you poke through the clay in the valley to the sand and gravel the water will shoot out of the hole to an elevation above the surface. An artesian well. The water is confined beneath the clay roof and builds up pressure as it falls in elevation from the mountain to the valley floor. Pretty cool I think.

 

[jboyce]

Just a comment on moving the dirt, if you decide to do so. be sure to move the topsoil into pile, then do your basic earth moving, and then put the topsoil back over everything. If you don't, you may end up with bare unfertile clay (mud) in some areas where you removed the cover.

Ecologically, simply creating express paths for water to leave just compounds the problems down river. Why don't you consider converting your land to a constructed wetland for the good of all of us? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[JoeR]

Constructing wetlands or creating them can be a bad thing too. There was an area here in Central Florida, in which they wanted to restore wetlands. The area was once an old Fern growing area. So they planted aquatic plants and allowed the nearby lake to reclaim the wetlands. Then all the fish started to die. Turns out, that the combination of bacteria in the soil along with old fertilizers polluted the lake from the reclaimed wetland areas. Of course, there are success stories too, but one major mishap seems to dominate all the good. Therefore, for an individual to take on something like creating a wetland would not be a good idea. I would leave that to people who have the knowledge and resources to do it correctly and avoid a mishap. Personally, I own 1 acre of wetlands, and it is the best form of natural drainage. After 12 inches of Hurricane Wilma rain, my swamp absorbed all that water in less than 8 hours. Amazing! I prefer wetlands to man made drainage. As long as nobody tampers with the natural flow, everything works fine!

Joe

 

[Highbeam]

"Ecologically, simply creating express paths for water to leave just compounds the problems down river. Why don't you consider converting your land to a constructed wetland for the good of all of us?"

Sure, why not just give your land away. The quickest way to make your land unusable is to let it become a wetland. You can actually give it away as "open space" and avoid taxes if you do it right. I didn't buy land to make it unusable, I want it dry and usable year round so I drain it as needed. Why not ride a bike to work so my air is easier to breathe?

One of my favorite quotes is.. "There are no such thing as wetlands, only drainage problems" I have seen people loose big bucks when their land was deemed a wetland. because not only must you stay out of the wetland but a 200 foot no touch buffer is very common.

 

[coastalguy]

No disrespect to anyone but I am not going to make my yard a wetland. The ditches I want the water to go are mine on my property. I posted to try gain valuable information for making my yard dry, not wet. The goal for me is to get the water the ground can no longer hold to the ditch. If only it were as simple as it sounds. I know it is difficult to provide solutions without see the topographic map. I guess I am looking more for methodologies. I know I probably need at least 1% slope for a swale. I am basically torn between surface and subsurface drainage and don't know how I should handle the impervious layer 24 inches down. Monetarily the swales are obviously cheaper. I know from NRCS that my soil in a Hockley series if that helps.