Dream machine - Somebody please build this!

[keeney]

My dream replacement machine for residential yard maint. would be a smaller version of the Bobcat toolcat with the following list of features and specs:

1000 lbs net when configured for mowing.

44" wide, 96" long (no attachment), 78" max Height.

24 x 9.5 x 12 aprox tire and wheel size all around.

2 seats like a UTV.

1000 lbs payload in the cargo bed with 250lb operator.

Four-bar roll cage with FOPS on top and seatblets for two.

Dumping cargo bed.

4wd, but with turf-friendly hydrostatic drive to all wheels.

4-wheel steer or optional rear-wheel steer to go with the front-mount mower deck.

Built-in loader boom with 800 lbs Rated operating, 2500 lbs tip angle. 1500 lbs hydraulic stall. True self-leveling configuratin.

25-30 HP liquid-cooled Diesel engine.

All attachments on loader boom out front like mini-skidsteers.

Compatibility with mini-skidster attachments. Quad-compatibility or available adapters big plus: Toro Dingo, Bobcat, PowerTrac.

Loader can lift all attachments for storage on a shelving unit.
(interlock to prevent mowers, snowblowers from being run while lifted too high).

Removable cab / panels with heater.

Standard 2" receiver hitch in rear for towing.

8-10" ground clearance.

Slight amount of 4-wheel ind. suspension travel for smooth ride and better traction.


Available Attachments

48" wide bucket.

54" finish mower deck with floating suspension and gauge wheels.

Optional materials-collection for mower deck. Materials deposited in cargo bed with additional soft-sided cover/top.

54" brush deck.

48" snowblower.

72" snow blade with power angling.

Winch.

48" wide (adjustable) x 36" long pallet forks.

Trencher

Tiller

Vibe plow.

Tree bucket.

Auger, post / tree.

Aerator.

List price $12,500 with bucket.


- Rick

 

[boomer4snow]

cad-trac? build it the way you want.

 

[MossRoad]

Keep dreaming. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You hit all the right items, though. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[timb]

Nice list but I think to get the strength-to-weight ratio you're looking for the frame/chassis/body/engine block would have to be built from extruded pure unobtanium! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BamaRob]

I work in the steel industry and have never heard of this unobtanium you speak of. Could you tell me more about it? What are some of it's properties?

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

BR

 

[CTyler]

I am only familiar with it on RC shock shafts. They last much longer than hardened shafts.

 

[keeney]

I am not so much worried about the frame. Its easy to build things light and stiff using large cross sections. For example, large tubing with thin walls or space frame type of design.

I am imagining a mostly aluminum frame and plastic panels.



The three design challenges I see are:

1. Loader arm design. On the front of the machine there will not be much space. It will need to be a clever deign to not intrude into the operator space too far. Also, it can't pivot out too far as it rises because balance is already an issue. Finally, the loader arm needs to be light to maintain balance and keep the net lift capacity high. Maybe aluminum boom? Maybe aluminum bucket?


2. Balance / Ballasting.

To get a high capacity in a small, light machine, will require carefull attention to balance. Adding permanent weight reduces the flexibility. Adding ballast every time you want ot use the loader will be a PIA. The answer is to get the front wheels close to the loader and a lot of the other weight back on the machine. Think rear-engine like a skid steer. This of course makes the cargo bed design height an issue if it sits over the engine.

3. Cost
Lots of hydraulics. Cost would be pretty much everything you would have on a larger machine, but less frame and smaller tires.

- Rick

 

[timb]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Think rear-engine like a skid steer. This of course makes the cargo bed design height an issue if it sits over the engine. )</font>

Anyone make a boxer diesel? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[hobbyfarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( would be a smaller version of the Bobcat toolcat )</font>

Mmmmmmmmm...a 1/2 - 1/3 scale Toolcat...mmmmmmmmmmm

When will it be ready? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[boomer4snow]

you might check out www.cadplans.com look for the cadtrac 1500 not quite what you have in mind, but good idea material

 

[KentT]

Thanks for the link -- I'd never looked at the CADTrac before. It weighs 1650 lbs for a machine with 500 lbs lift capability.

In comparison, the Power-Trac 425 weighs under 1400 lbs and has 800 lbs lift capability, in addition to the hydraulic quick attach, twice the ground speed, etc.

 

[keeney]

Yes, very much like a PowerTrac 425, but:

- Two seats, not one so driver and helper can be transported to worksite.

- Cargo box on back that is always handy for tools and materials.

- Enclosed cab option.

- 4-wheel steer instead of articulated steering (this is more related to how to get the 2 seats and cab incorporated than a specific opinion about the steering mechanism).

- Add some suspension.

- Increase travel speed to 20 MPH or so. I think Powertrac is 8 MPH

 

[theonlybull]

ok 800lbs lift in a 1000 lbs machine.... and 2500 lbs tip.... your dreaming right??

a gvw of 2.25 times the weight of the machine?might be doalble, except for having the loader and everything else on it...

using thin walled large sized tube is a good idea, but then things like loader mounts, and tipping sills need alot of extra renforcement to keep them from pulling out of the main tube... especially if you use alum., witch will also drive the price up by atleast 70%, due to material costs, and added work to manufacture.

if you weight the machine to the rear, then try to dump 1000 lbs off the back, you'll be looking for one wild ride as well....

you've got a great idea, but alot of your requests need to be atleast haved to have any chance of a workin machine. a 1000 lbs machine isn't much, our little skid steer weights a lil' over 2000lbs, and 800 lbs lift would be a dream... that would be pushing it to get the tipping weight...

 

[getut]

You almost never see aluminum used for any mechanical or moving objects such as lift arms, booms or purposely flexible frame designs. It is used almost exclusively in static frames where the design is known to be substantial enough to not have any flex or motion at all.

Aluminum and its many alloys, unlike steel has a very low safe elasticity. Steel can be flexed over and over and as long as a safe threshold for the design is not crossed no strength is lost OVER TIME.

Aluminum almost immediately crosses its elastic threshold if it is flexed and weakens slightly with every movement. Over time aluminum will break even if it started out its life with substantial safety room in its design.

To put it one last way, the breaking point of steel will remain at a certain value as long as it is never OVER stressed for its entire life. Aluminum breaking points will decrease over time even in normal expected usage scenarios.

 

[keeney]

Re:

".... your dreaming right??"

Yes. See the title of the post.

I was mostly testing the waters to see if there is any kind of serious interest in this type of machine. The Bobcat Toolcat seems kind of popular in larger applications, but for the "estate" owner with a more modest 1 to 5 acre estate, a much smaller machine with similar features seems like it would be a very handy thing to have.

I would assume the machine would need to be ballasted up a bit to get to that kind of tip point. The ballast would have to stay between the wheelbase because otherwise you have the problem of going over backwards when the loader is empty and you drive up a hill. Probably some kind of belly ballast with a drive-over quick-attach setup.

Also, I was thinking of about 1000 - 1200 lb base vehicle, 200 - 300 lb mowing deck to get to a 1200 to 1500 mowing configuration. When using the loader, drop the mower, and replace it with a bucket of about the same weight.

If I keep the frame weight low, materials cost is not such a large portion of the cost - its mostly the hydraulics, controls, and engine that add all the cost. With the price of steel these days, aluminum is starting to be more attractive.

The hydraulics are alos what add a lot of the weight. Most hgydraulic components for off-road and tractor applications are not designed with low weight as a design goal!

Yes, I know about fatigue failure of aluminum, but this is an issue that has been solved for many years in things like aircraft, automotive, and transportation (semi trailors). Yes, there is a complex relationship in the yield curve with cyclic fatigue, but some simple rules of thumb can keep you out of trouble if you stay below the fatigue-yield limit for the material.

One subject that comes up in this discussion is the difference in the way loaders are rated.

From browsing the specs, it appears that construction equipment and skid steers are rated with a "Rated Operating Capacity". This often appears to be about 1/3 their tipping capacity like its supposed to embody a 3x safety margin. Everybody knows they can exceed the ROC and the machine will always have enough hydraulics to lift more than that anyway, but don't exceed the tip rating or you will tip over.

Agricultural-style tractor loaders appear to be rated based on their hydraulic stall limit without regard to tipping or any tipping safety margin. Unfortunately, they get sold that way as well and there are numerous stories on TBN of new FEL owners asking about ballast.

I am not so much interested in really being able to lift 2500 lbs as I am in making the thing reasonably safe when its lifting 800 to 1000 lbs.

- Rick

 

[odleefs]

<font color="blue"> The Bobcat Toolcat seems kind of popular in larger applications, but for the "estate" owner with a more modest 1 to 5 acre estate, a much smaller machine with similar features seems like it would be a very handy thing to have.
</font>
"They" have been listening... check out the following thread. It was only a matter of time !
Toolcat Mini-me