Drill bits for metal work.

[LD1]

FYI...excuse me mr omnipotent (whom I've noticed does not seem to know the difference between "weather" and "whether")

And that has to do with what?

Its funny, those that are wrong, their only comeback is find fault with someones grammar. Good for you. Now lets grow up

As the drill size increases, both the size of the web and the width of the chisel edge increase (Figure 6-34). The chisel edge of drill does not have a sharp cutting action, scraping rather than cutting occurs. In larger drills, this creates a considerable strain on the machine. To eliminate this strain when drilling a large hole, a pilot hole is drilled first (Figure 6-34) and then followed with the larger drill. A drill whose diameter is wider than the web thickness of the large drill is used for the pilot hole. This hole should be drilled accurately as the larger drill will follow the small hole.

Thanks for looking that up and quoting it. It is exactly what I said had you cared to read.

In case you missed it....this is what "I" said:

Drillbits OVER 1/2" are typically a chisel point. And nothing more than a pilot equal to the web thickness (width of the chisel point) is all thats needed. Usually around 1/4" works well.

Its clear that some of you do not know the difference between a pilot hole, and stepping up sizes.

Pilot hole on large bits....yea, thats what you want.

Drilling 1/4", then 1/2", then 3/4" like you said you do....thats not good.

Someone stepping up bits in small increments because they somehow think thats the way it should be done.....clear sign of a novice at work. And thats not meant to offend anyone. Just the truth in hopes that maybe someone can learn something here.

But keep drilling how you want. Dont listen to people that do it for a living. Dont listen when people try to help. Dont listen when told there is a better way.

 

[KubotainNH]

I have a set of Norseman (I think) drills similar to the ones in the link below, HSS and made in the US. Cut nice and easy to sharpen for a reasonable price. I also use HF step drills for the thinner stuff. I have a Roto-broach set but have yet to use it. Biggest piece of advice is to watch some youtube videos and learn how to sharpen your drills freehand on a grinder. When you get decent at it you'll be amazed at how a 30 second touch up of a drill will make it cut like butter.

Norseman 4352 24-B Bright Finish 118deg HSS Drill Set 29 Piece | eBay

 

[/pine]

...And that has to do with what?
Its funny, those that are wrong, their only comeback is find fault with someones grammar. Good for you. Now lets grow up...

It was a retort to your condescending tone...just because it did not agree with your reasoning and method meant the technique is "wrong"...And just because someone uses a tried and true (bootleg) method does not make them a novice per se...!

...Thanks for looking that up and quoting it. It is exactly what I said had you cared to read....

Not exactly...!

...A drill whose diameter is wider than the web thickness of the large drill is used for the pilot hole.

You said

..."And nothing more than a pilot equal to the web thickness"...

Most would argue that "wider" and "equal" are not EXACTLY the same...!

FYI I was taught to bore larger holes in heavy steel like I described when I was a youngster by a great uncle who was a professional riveter...I have tried both methods and I know for a fact which way is faster and easier to get the desired end result...I don't need to be lectured by condescending know it all's that have no clue how experienced someone is based on one (proven) mechanical technique that is contrary to what an instruction manual might say...

 

[LD1]

It was a retort to your condescending tone...just because it did not agree with your reasoning and method meant the technique is "wrong"...And just because someone uses a tried and true (bootleg) method does not make them a novice per se...!


Not exactly...!

You said
Most would argue that "wider" and "equal" are not EXACTLY the same...!

FYI I was taught to bore larger holes in heavy steel like I described when I was a youngster by a great uncle who was a professional riveter...I have tried both methods and I know for a fact which way is faster and easier to get the desired end result...I don't need to be lectured by condescending know it all's that have no clue how experienced someone is based on one (proven) mechanical technique that is contrary to what an instruction manual might say...

There was nothing condescending about what I wrote. Just stated facts. And the facts are that the way you describe is exactly how a novice drills. Perhaps you got offended by the word "novice". But there is no offense meant. Its just a term. And usually when one gets offended when called an amature/novice/newbie/rookie/etc....its because they are.

Like I said, keep doing what you are doing.

Those that drill metal for a living, know that the way you are doing it is wrong. PERIOD. This gets hashed out here on TBN almost as often it seems as R1 vs R4 debate. And at the end of the day, those of us who work with metal for a living agree that stepping up bits is a bad thing. And those that play backyard wannabe, do just as you describe.

Im just doing my part to try and help educate those with less experience. Its up to them to decide if they want to continue to do it the way you insist is easier, or if they want to expand their horizons and try a way that they may find to be far superior.

 

[/pine]

There was nothing condescending about what I wrote. Just stated facts. And the facts are that the way you describe is exactly how a novice drills. Perhaps you got offended by the word "novice". But there is no offense meant. Its just a term. And usually when one gets offended when called an amature/novice/newbie/rookie/etc....its because they are.

Like I said, keep doing what you are doing.

Those that drill metal for a living, know that the way you are doing it is wrong. PERIOD. This gets hashed out here on TBN almost as often it seems as R1 vs R4 debate. And at the end of the day, those of us who work with metal for a living agree that stepping up bits is a bad thing. And those that play backyard wannabe, do just as you describe.

Im just doing my part to try and help educate those with less experience. Its up to them to decide if they want to continue to do it the way you insist is easier, or if they want to expand their horizons and try a way that they may find to be far superior.

FYI...there are likely folks you would regard as a novice or a "backyard wannabe" (based on what little you know about them) that has bored more holes and fabricated more millwright or mechanical hardware than you will ever see in your life...I'm sorry I just do not suffer fools gladly...!

 

[LD1]

FYI...there are likely folks you would regard as a novice or a "backyard wannabe" (based on what little you know about them) that has bored more holes and fabricated more millwright or mechanical hardware than you will ever see in your life...I'm sorry I just do not suffer fools gladly...!

I don't know any reputable machinist or millwright who would proudly tout about boring holes by stepping in 1/8 or 1/4" increments. And I've been in the trade my whole life.

But then again, there are people who retire from a lifelong career in a skilled trade profession that still don't know the right way of doing things. So I suppose you are probably right, there are probably people out there that have bored more than the thousands of holes I do a year that still insist on stepping bit sizes. And those folks are probably just like you, too proud to learn anything new. And the way you have done it your whole life must be the right way.

 

[Redbug]

Hi George...I have been using the ones from Lowe's which work well. I have a drill sharpener, (not a Drill Dr), that I use. The larger bits, I hand sharpen on my grinder using the "fine" stone. My grinder also has a drill bit groove on the bed for a good angle. There are Utubes on how to do it yourself using the grinder. Look up, "drill bit sharpening jig", too. I also have a tool for checking the point on the larger bits. You will save money in the long run sharpening your own bits and not throwing them away. I have a neat tool for checking the drill points, too. It does a lot of other neat things as well: General Tools 16ME Multi Use Rule and Gage - Construction Rulers - Amazon.com

 

[marchanna]

Why can稚 we all just get along?

I値l chime in one more time. The main reason why I would expect a pro to step the drill sizes is because they don稚 have sufficient spindle hp to do the hole in one shot. That痴 a valid reason in my opinion.

Btw, I used to design and manufacture cutters.

 

[orezok]

In the construction trades, we have "craftsmen" who tout their 20, 30 etc. years of experience. After watching them, it seems that they have 1 years experience 20 or 30 times!

Hmmm...

 

[/pine]

I don't know any reputable machinist or millwright who would proudly tout about boring holes by stepping in 1/8 or 1/4" increments. And I've been in the trade my whole life.

But then again, there are people who retire from a lifelong career in a skilled trade profession that still don't know the right way of doing things. So I suppose you are probably right, there are probably people out there that have bored more than the thousands of holes I do a year that still insist on stepping bit sizes. And those folks are probably just like you, too proud to learn anything new. And the way you have done it your whole life must be the right way.

Anyone in the trade long enough knows for a fact "it" can be a faster/easier technique...it was never about "learning" the theoretically correct way of doing anything...
On most commercial jobs...twist drills are considered as consumables...and most mechanics abuse them to save time...

Now if you're a (union card carrying) BTH machinist of course you are going to go by the manual...but everyone knows the fastest method...especially if it has to be done in the field with portable tools and power etc...

Honestly I do not recall a lot of threads/debates on the subject...but your argument is about the same as taking the guards off of angle grinders or disconnecting seat safety switches etc...there's nothing superior to your method...PERIOD