Drill Press or Drill/Mill ?

[Taylortractornut]

Late in the summer I had a friend thats a master machinist. He like the mini stuff as he lives in town with a tiny shop. He had a friend that was retiring and selling his factory. He had a large tool room. I had bought a mini mill from my friend a few years back but it wasnt big enough and I didnt have the patients to use it after being used to a large mill.

My friend told me about the shop closing and offered me to get an Enco commercial grade Bridgeport clone. It was jsut a few years old with a power table feed, USA digital read out, Kurt vice and a Bridgeport boring bar and alot of other tooling for 500 dollars. I expected it being a little rough but when it got here it was like new condition. It was 3 phase which isnt a problem.

 

[jake98]

My friend told me about the shop closing and offered me to get an Enco commercial grade Bridgeport clone. It was jsut a few years old with a power table feed, USA digital read out, Kurt vice and a Bridgeport boring bar and alot of other tooling for 500 dollars.

That's the way to get them! I have a lathe lined up for $500. with lots of extras, but it's like five steps ahead of the game for me. I'm going to get it anyway. It's an old Logan, supposedly in beautiful shape.
ps, if anybody wants a big ancient 30" wheel bandsaw, I'm going to get rid of it to make some room...

 

[mjncad]

What Dstig mentions about frustration with low/no cost CAD software is common to those of us who have used AutoCAD and other high dollar stuff on a regular basis. We keep looking for the tools we're used to having available to us, and they aren't there or are limited in function.

Now modifying AutoCAD 3D solids has the same flaws and frustration as working the 3D SketchUp solids as there is no parametric modeling engine.

I've been using AutoCAD since R9 (mid 80's), and now with products like Revit (architecture), Inventor and Solidworks (MCAD) out there, the thought of doing the same physical design work in AutoCAD is just so dam primitive. AutoCAD is a great product; but now I only want to use it for schematic drawings, and the occasional quick doodle sketch.

 

[mx842]

Thanks so much, that looks like a good one. Lots of utube instruction too, by the looks of it. :thumbsup:

Like I said, I don't know if it is good or not because I have never use anything like this before. If I ever had to do any kind of drawings for a project before I always winged it on Microsoft publisher in Office.:laughing: That's the extent of my experience with drawing programs. I downloaded the google one several times but never could get the hang of it. As you mentioned DS has a lot of UTube videos and a pretty good getting started guide too that explains a lot of tools in dummy terms and when you use the videos to back the guide up even I can get some of the stuff to sink in. I have battled ADD all my life and I learned a long time ago that learning anything for me required hands on teaching. Reading out of a book or listening in a class room never worked for me and trying to learn something like this with all the things encased in a cad program, simple or not is quite trying for me. I just wish I had the time to spend playing with this one because I can see something like this could open up a whole new world for me.

You may have already found this but I'll post it anyway it is the getting started guide I mentioned. They also have a help forum you can go to to get help also.

http://www.3ds.com/fileadmin/PRODUCTS/DRAFT_SIGHT/PDF/GETTING-STARTED-GUIDE.pdf

Oh by the way if you can find an old Bridgeport you will be far better off than you will with those small mini drill/mill things, been there done that. The one that The little machine shop is pretty good but it is still lacking. I have a 1946 BP that is still in great shape and would not trade it for three of those multi mini units. Tooling is going to cost you no matter what you buy so you may as well buy something you can really use and get your moneys worth. Just my opinion:thumbsup: and you know how those things are.

http://www.3ds.com/fileadmin/PRODUCTS/DRAFT_SIGHT/PDF/GETTING-STARTED-GUIDE.pdf

 

[dstig1]

Matt, You are spot on. I tried AutoCAD back in the early-mid 90's and it too drove me nuts as I needed 3D modeling. When we got Pro/Engineer, the clouds parted and the sun shone. And it was much harder to learn back then than it is now. But it could do what you needed. AC is still used at our company for facilities layouts, but that's about it.

I'm not sure why Sketchup doesn't allow you to directly change dimensions, but I assume that it is only associative and not fully parametric. Just like old AC...

I've also had really good success with Chief Architect for 3D architectural design, and while it's not the same cost as the other guys you mentioned, it is far from free...

In looking into Draftsight, it appears to be just a 2D drawing package. Bummer.

 

[jake98]

In looking into Draftsight, it appears to be just a 2D drawing package. Bummer.

That's the part I like about it, for my simple needs. It seems to be full featured 2D to me, but I'm not up on the stuff. I still have two letter commands stuck in my head from 20 years ago, but their videos seem good for learning a new way. Plus the music at the end will wake you up if you're dozing.. need to be ready with the volume knob.

 

[dstig1]

Interesting development... This thread got me looking into options and the good people from Pro/Engineer (PTC) have created a free version called Creo Elements. You need to register an account with email address, but of course you can fake the rest of the registration fields if you are concerned about privacy. It operates very differently from Pro/E but actually more like SU or possibly Solidworks (my exposure to that is very limited). BUT it is parametric so you can drive parts with dimensions, unlike SU. I won't say it is drop-kick easy to pick up, but they have videos to show you how it operates. If you can use SU, you should be able to adapt, I'd think.

You need an internet connection to activate, and it requires re-activation every few days, but since my use is sporadic at home, That just means I need to type in my password every time I use it. No biggie to me, especially for free.

PTC - Creo Elements/Direct Modeling Express 4.0

FWIW...

 

[ultrarunner]

My friend told me about the shop closing and offered me to get an Enco commercial grade Bridgeport clone. It was jsut a few years old with a power table feed, USA digital read out, Kurt vice and a Bridgeport boring bar and alot of other tooling for 500 dollars. I expected it being a little rough but when it got here it was like new condition. It was 3 phase which isnt a problem.

Wow what a deal!!!

 

[mjncad]

I have battled ADD all my life and I learned a long time ago that learning anything for me required hands on teaching. Reading out of a book or listening in a class room never worked for me and trying to learn something like this with all the things encased in a cad program, simple or not is quite trying for me.

Yep, I'm a hands on learner too. I had a he!! of time first learning CAD (Auto-Trol GS-100) in 1979, and then all of a sudden it clicked with me.

Matt, You are spot on. I tried AutoCAD back in the early-mid 90's and it too drove me nuts as I needed 3D modeling. When we got Pro/Engineer, the clouds parted and the sun shone. And it was much harder to learn back then than it is now. But it could do what you needed. AC is still used at our company for facilities layouts, but that's about it.

I saw a vendor demo of Pro-E; but that's as close as I ever came to it.

AutoCAD's 3D problems are essentially a result of using what is now an antiquated drawing database structure. Although Autodesk updates the DWG file format from time to time; keeping the current command structure and compatibility with the millions, if not billions of DWG drawings out there pretty much hampers what they can do with ACAD. Autodesk had Mechanical Desktop and Architectural Desktop (ACAD based). MD is gone, and AD still hangs around in some form.

Autodesk created Inventor to directly compete with SolidWorks and others as trying to adapt the ACAD database was a kluge.

Inventor and SolidWorks work very similarly; but I like Inventor better as the demo versions of each product had Solidworks as being very buggy compared to Inventor.

Revit for architecture is a very impressive product, not perfect mind you; but much better for doing buildings than ACAD. No wonder Autodesk bought Revit.

I'm not sure why Sketchup doesn't allow you to directly change dimensions, but I assume that it is only associative and not fully parametric. Just like old AC...

I'm guessing it was a budget decision.

I've also had really good success with Chief Architect for 3D architectural design, and while it's not the same cost as the other guys you mentioned, it is far from free...

In looking into Draftsight, it appears to be just a 2D drawing package. Bummer.

Thanks for looking into the DraftSight product. I had a hunch that's what is was going to be.

 

[Taylortractornut]

I have another friend that deals in surplus machinery he has several mills in stock and a few lathes to. If you want I can give yall his number.

Jake that Logan sounds nice I have the one Granfather picked up after ww2. it neeads a new belt and a few of the change gears are chipped. THe logan had ballbearings inthe head stock that are easy to replace if theres any runout. Lots of parts still available from Logan actuator. I had them run the numbers on his machine and it was made on February 7th 1942.

 

[jake98]

I have another friend that deals in surplus machinery he has several mills in stock and a few lathes to. If you want I can give yall his number.

Jake that Logan sounds nice I have the one Granfather picked up after ww2. it neeads a new belt and a few of the change gears are chipped. THe logan had ballbearings inthe head stock that are easy to replace if theres any runout. Lots of parts still available from Logan actuator. I had them run the numbers on his machine and it was made on February 7th 1942.

I may be taking a look at that lathe tomorrow, will be down that way. Found this page tonight while I was googling milling: Home Shop Tips
it's got a gizzillion little shop tips..

 

[toxicjeeper]

I didnt read the entire thread but..


I had the same problem as you..needed to drill some 5/8 inch holes in one inch thick plate. And was having a hard time with it so I added a third pulley..i didnt know at the time that you can buy them like this but here is how mine looks..I am guessing an rpm around the 200 range.. Got the job done but the damage was done cause it started the machine tool gathering addiction

drilling some pipe

I too bought a lathe because i had always wanted to run one and am now finding the need to for a proper milling machine..Either a BP or larger more ridgid machine is what i am after now..


Dont settle for a small less ridgid table top mill when you can get a full size for cheaper..

 

[lostcause]

Dont settle for a small less ridgid table top mill when you can get a full size for cheaper..

that's all a function of availability where you live. a couple years ago i took a 3 hour drive and came home with a used rf-30 mill/drill for $550. that price included the stand, 50+ good shape us made end mills, and a few other odds and ends. i still regularly look at craigslist and a few other places for a decent deal on a knee mill, but they are few and far between at under $2000 around here, and virtually all of them are bare mills with no tooling included to get started. at least half of the ones i see might have been sitting unused for 20 years and the person selling it inherited it and has no clue how to use it, but they are sure it's worth a fortune.

there are shortcomings with a mill/drill, but it beats having no mill at all. at 650 lbs, it's not a total lightweight - it's got plenty of power to drill 3/4"-1" holes without having to step through multiple sizes. i had to drill some 7/8" holes recently for 3ph lower pins, and all i did was start the hole with a center drill and then went right to the 7/8 bit. that's not even including the milling capabilities which you don't have with a drill press.

 

[jake98]

I picked the d/m up from the terminal tonight. It's gonna be a busy weekend for me.