Dropping intertwined trees

[Boondox]

Near my house I have two trees that have to come down; both are the diameter of a telephone pole and about twenty feet off the ground they wrap halfway around each other so the crowns are intertwined. One is a dead Eastern White Pine that is not yet showing signs of rot, and the other is a healthy ash. I have a logging winch on my JD 4044R.

Unless I use the winch to redirect there is a chance the crowns will hit the porch. So here's my proposal.
Using a ladder, chain the two trees together as high as I can. Attach the winch cable.
Notch the dead pine. Even if I'm wrong and there is some rot at the base, the ash will support it.
Notch the ash.
With my wife using the winch to apply light pull, make a shallow falling cut in the ash (if the ash starts falling the wife will pull hard on the winch to pull the crowns away from the house).
With the tractor at PTO speed, use the winch to pull both trees down as I deepen the falling cut.

Sound like a plan?

Pete

 

[Lnk]

I would cut the one that is the most leaning away from the house first. Put the winch on that one and if it doesn't start falling away, pull it with the winch. Trees are a lot heavier than we think, and 2 are twice as heavy. Be careful. Pictures would mean a lot to those trying to give advice. Good luck.

 

[Boondox]

Thanks, lnk. You got me to thinking. There is a small ash (4" diameter) in the way on the far side, but with the Emerald Ash Borer just twenty miles south all the ash trees are doomed. If I drop that one for firewood now, I could rig a snatch block and drop the dead pine away from the house.

 

[Lnk]

Glad you are taking your time to think about it. When you have a solid plan, ask yourself, what can go wrong? When you can't think of anything, you have a good plan.

 

[EddieWalker]

If you had a lift, could you cut off most of the branches and separate the trees? I'm not a fan of heights, and I'm not going to climb a tree with a chainsaw, but I've rented the tow-able lift from Home Depot quite a few times to get to places that where too dangerous to do from a ladder with great success. For me, the risk of injury far outweighs the cost of paying to rent the lift.

 

[Diggin It]

Sound like a plan?

Nope.

Complicated drops anywhere near a house are for the pros with boom trucks. Too expensive you say? How much will it cost to repair the roof, trusses, siding and maybe windows? Or you?

 

[CobyRupert]

Eddie has a good point.

However, IF you cut...
Trying to "balance" putting just the right tension on a tree while cutting it is tricky. Especially with a logging winch where "quick braking" is required or tension is quickly lost as soon as you release the rope. But 1/3 of a second later is too much tension. Also cable tension is constantly changing as you cut.

Too much pull, and you will "barberchair" the tree you're cutting. (Look up "barberchair" if you don't know what I mean). NOT something you want. Putting a chain or strap around the trunk above your cut is a little bit of insurance against a barberchair migrating up the trunk, or gives you the extra 1 second to RUN!!

Too little pull (or cutting too fast/or too much of the "hinge wood") and tree will fall according to gravity faster than winch can recover. It can then "arc" or fall up to 90 degrees left or right of the cable pull direction while using any minimal amount of cable slack to do so. Slack is in the droop of the cable. Watch the droop of the cable to judge tension.

Also note that as you're doing back cut, the tension in line will cause tree to move towards winch, thus reducing tension and your not pulling as much anymore as you think. Re-tensioning constantly required, but not too much.....see above.

Depending on circumstances, you may want to consider a plunge cut, where tree is "held" in place during the backcut until the very end. Or conversely, you may want tree slowly pivoting towards desired direction as you're doing a standard backcut to know things are going right.

You almost want the least experienced person doing the final backcut and the most experienced person applying the right tension at the right time. Bluetooth intercoms to talk to each other would be handy too.

What I've done is use a standard backcut, but leave extra hinge wood so that tree won't yet fall anywhere yet. Then turn off saw and walk away. Then power it over using winch from safe distance, ripping the last of the hinge wood with the winch rather than sawing it.

Two trees together (with one dead. Dead limbs falling = widow-makers. Have hardhat) is one of the most dangerous things you shouldn't do when logging. Try to do one at a time.

Eddie has good advice, only you know the situation, your skills, and risk tolerance.

Be safe.

 

[CobyRupert]

Got pictures?

 

[Captain Dirty]

A lot of good advice especially CobyRupert for the practice and Diggin It for the practicality.

Get an estimate from an insured tree service; the boondocks (AKA Northeast Kingdom) have a reputation for uninsured "experts" who will cheaply offer their services at your risk. Investigate the cost and time for rental; I think the closest Home Depot is near Burlington. These may influence your thinking.

If you DIY remember a slack cable provides no control. I suggest rigging one or more guys or "preventers" at right angles to the intended direction of fall that will have tension during the fall and prevent the trees from hitting the porch or house.

As Coby said "Only you know the situation, your [and your wife's] skills, and risk tolerance."

 

[turnkey4099]

If you had a lift, could you cut off most of the branches and separate the trees? I'm not a fan of heights, and I'm not going to climb a tree with a chainsaw, but I've rented the tow-able lift from Home Depot quite a few times to get to places that where too dangerous to do from a ladder with great success. For me, the risk of injury far outweighs the cost of paying to rent the lift.

I've been cutting between 10 and 20 cord/yr since 1980. I don't consider myself a professional but I do mostly know what I'm doing. I have a rule "do not touch a hazard tree". I did it a couple times and then scared myself almost to death on one. Came very close to dropping a huge locust across an occupied trailor house. 2 stupid women wouldn't even leave the trailor when I asked them to. I had it rigged to pull backwards from a slight lean but it didn't want to cooperate, I'd cut a bit deeper on the back cut, pull some, gain a bit of cable, repeat, repeat, etc. Worst 20 minutes of my life. No more, If it is a hazard, i.e., can cause damage when it falls, I call a pro in. I've done that 4 times now to remove what looked easy trees from around my house but not worth the risk.

 

[CobyRupert]

I've been cutting between 10 and 20 cord/yr since 1980. I don't consider myself a professional but I do mostly know what I'm doing. I have a rule "do not touch a hazard tree". I did it a couple times and then scared myself almost to death on one. Came very close to dropping a huge locust across an occupied trailor house. 2 stupid women wouldn't even leave the trailor when I asked them to. I had it rigged to pull backwards from a slight lean but it didn't want to cooperate, I'd cut a bit deeper on the back cut, pull some, gain a bit of cable, repeat, repeat, etc. Worst 20 minutes of my life. No more, If it is a hazard, i.e., can cause damage when it falls, I call a pro in. I've done that 4 times now to remove what looked easy trees from around my house but not worth the risk.

Good advice.
Yep, I think your method is better than trying to coordinate the cutter with the puller (who's probably a 100'+ feet away and can't hear anything over the chain saw)
Full disclosure: Don't take my advice. Two weeks ago I had a tree go 90 degrees and the top 'clipped' the power line. No damage or injuries, but blew a breaker on a pole about 1-1/2 miles away and put 24 houses out of power for 3 hours. Let me tell you, by the time the utility crew searched the line looking for why their breaker blew there was no tree to be found!
My fault, but not my fault, but ultimately was. Prior to that tree, I'd cut 3 leaner trees using wedges (plan A) and a block and tackle (back up plan B) by myself. Going slow. Stopping. Wedging. Taking up slack. Rinse, repeat. All went well.
Then "Help" showed up and I got cocky. I figured with them pulling I had nothing to worry about and could speed up the process. Well, I cut the hinge too thin too quickly on a maple. It snapped the hinge and they weren't pulling , well not enough anyways.
Again, my fault for trusting them.
In 30 years of cutting thaaaat was a first. And hopefully a last.

 

[turnkey4099]

Good advice.
Yep, I think your method is better than trying to coordinate the cutter with the puller (who's probably a 100'+ feet away and can't hear anything over the chain saw)
Full disclosure: Don't take my advice. Two weeks ago I had a tree go 90 degrees and the top 'clipped' the power line. No damage or injuries, but blew a breaker on a pole about 1-1/2 miles away and put 24 houses out of power for 3 hours. Let me tell you, by the time the utility crew searched the line looking for why their breaker blew there was no tree to be found!
My fault, but not my fault, but ultimately was. Prior to that tree, I'd cut 3 leaner trees using wedges (plan A) and a block and tackle (back up plan B) by myself. Going slow. Stopping. Wedging. Taking up slack. Rinse, repeat. All went well.
Then "Help" showed up and I got cocky. I figured with them pulling I had nothing to worry about and could speed up the process. Well, I cut the hinge too thin too quickly on a maple. It snapped the hinge and they weren't pulling , well not enough anyways.
Again, my fault for trusting them.
In 30 years of cutting thaaaat was a first. And hopefully a last.

Tryng to pull it down with a truck is not a "good thing" ONce the tree starts to fall, the truck is NOT going to keep up with it. I fell one fairly big fur just off the corner of my back porch, very slight lean/weight towards the porch. I cut all the bnranches off the porch side I could reach then cabled to a very stout anchor and added 3 5gal buckets of water to the middle of the tight cable. It worked but I do not recommend it.