Dug Up Phone Line.... What next?

riptides · Apr 22, 2004

( I knew about the phone line's electricity.)

Amazingly, people just brush off the phone line. Hey. it's just a phone line. Well.............. it has electricity. 'nuf said.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I've educated a few neighboors in my time splicing lines. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Inspector507 · Apr 22, 2004

GerardC,
Some states are different........keep that in mind. Here in Ohio, they deregulated the electrical supply industry. One of the perks that comes with that is, as a homeowner you can own and install the underground feed TO your meter if you want the hassles. What typically is done on residential existing homes or homes out in the sticks, the homeowner digs the trench to the house, Utility owns and installs wire.

MMILLER · Apr 22, 2004

Here in PA. you must call PA one call before digging. Had a excavater give estimate on reworking lower end of drive way at township road. He called PA one call. They then sent out guy from phone company to locate burried line. Set up meeting time then phone man could not find area for meeting called my contractor to go find him and lead him to site. On arrive he gets out of vehicle walks around 15 min. Could not find line tells contractor he would not dig. Contractor tells him I want job done and he will dig. Phone man then has my Contractor lead him back to main road so he can find his way back. We did work no problems but if all of these guys are this incompentent then it is no wonder people hit lines. I question wether this guy has trouble finding his $#@ when he needs to wipe.

Bird · Apr 22, 2004

( Here in Ohio, they deregulated the electrical supply industry. One of the perks that comes with that is, as a homeowner you can own and install the underground feed TO your meter if you want the hassles. )

Like most of the other guys have said, I'm accustomed to the electric company owning, maintaining, etc. everything TO the meter, or at least to the pole the meter is on. Our rural electric company would provide a meter base and then required the customer to provide the pole, weather head, conduit, and wiring from a height of 12' down to the meter base (approximately 6').

I would have been surprised that other places were different if I had not done a gas leakage survey in Ohio a few years ago, because I was also accustomed to the gas company owning everything TO the meter. However, on the job I did in Ohio, there were shut off valves just a few feet off the gas mains, then the lines going across the customers' properties to the meters next to the houses were the customers' responsibility.

So, obviously, you have to be familiar with local laws, customs, utility company policies, etc.

WCarlson · Apr 22, 2004

gerard,
I am not surprised and with all due respect to those that feel that the power company owns everything up to the meter, my experience is quite different. I am also a NIMO rural customer. When I purchased my 40 year old house, nine years ago. I had overhead wires providing all electrical, cable and phone service. The cable runs ran within easy touching distance of second story deck that had been added about 10 years earlier. In that they were within reach of energetic grandchildren, I hired an electrician to bury the cables from the NIMO pole to the meter. He trenched a relatively circuitous route in order to avoid a couple large trees and the septic system. NIMO's involvment was limited to disconnectng the overhead wires, connecting the buried wires and certifing the system was connected properly. The buried wires are mine as were the overhead wires. When overhead wires between the NIMO pole and your house are taken down by a falling tree limb, guess who arranges to have an electician reinstall the overhead wires? It isn't NIMO.
Bill

Bird · Apr 22, 2004

( you must call PA one call before digging )

Does every state now have a system where one call is supposed to get all the utilities marked? I guess they do. Whether one call, or whether you call each utility individually, there are lots of mistakes made, and I guess that's understandable. Nearly 25 years ago, I had an inground swimming pool installed in the backyard. The house was nearly new, and I had been there several times when it was under construction so I knew where the gas line was and knew it would have to be moved. However, I did not know where the phone line and electric line were. I called the phone company and they came out and marked the line coming across the alley at 90 degrees into my yard right where the pool would be, then abruptly angling about 45 degrees to the house. So they laid a temporary line so service wouldn't be disrupted during the construction. When the backhoe eventually dug up the old line, that cut service to my next door neighbor because his line was running along with mine in my yard to the point of that 45 degree angle, then his angled off toward his house. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I tied the wires back together to restore his service until the phone company came and fixed it.

Then I had to call the electric company and they told me to call the developer/builder who told me to call the subcontractor; a big company that did all the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC for them. They sent a kid out who assured me that the electric line was not where we would be digging. He said it ran under, then alongside the paved driveway; a routing that made no sense whatsoever. So I called and got his supervisor and told him I didn't think the kid knew how to use his equipment. The supervisor assured me the kid was right. But the first bucketful of dirt pulled up by the backhoe also pulled up the electric line, sparks flew, and the backhoe operator jumped from the machine, fortunately uninjured. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So the one call deal is great, but either way, I wouldn't entirely trust the results.

BillyP · Apr 22, 2004

Gerald, Here in SE Oklahoma there are two power companies, AEP and Choctaw Electric. Neither company will run or maintain an underground line. The homeowner can run the underground line and they'll feed it but it's the homeowner's baby.

Could be different where you live but from the fax it doesn't seem to be.

Junkman · Apr 22, 2004

Three years ago, I installed underground power to my home and I had to install the meter socket, and the conduit from the meter socket on the house, to the pole base. The electric company supplied and installed the wire from the pole transformer to the meter socket. There was no charge for the install or for materials. They even supplied the piece of conduit going up the pole. I did supply them with a weather head for the pipe that is installed on the pole because they usually just pack it with clay and I have learned from others experience that the clay will deteriorate and let water into the conduit. I did the same for the telephone and the cable. The electric company and the town had to sign off on the conduit install before the wire was pulled, however the town accepted the electric company inspection and waived their inspection. Since I put it in, I know where it is, and I also know that it is 4' down. I keep a note book that has all these details in it for the next owner of the house, so there should be no question where things are located on the property when I am gone.

Poppa · Apr 22, 2004

Well, there you go Gerard, my free advice appears to have been worth exactly what you paid for it /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. I guess the question now is did you have the line put in from post to meter or was it there when you got there? Either way, you can still get it located, it's just that you will be the one who pays for it and not the elec utility. Alternatively, Junkman gave you excellent instructions for determining the run from the pole and the meter.

Mike

Soundguy · Apr 22, 2004

I used to do some tv and tele contract work... Loved it when ringer voltage came in at an inopertune moment..

Soundguy

Soundguy · Apr 22, 2004

( On arrive he gets out of vehicle walks around 15 min. Could not find line tells contractor he would not dig. )

The GC I work for does lots of excavation and UND/Util work.

The No-cuts people we work with are regionally stable.. so we almost always get the 2 same guys.. depending on what side of the county we are in.. one guy.. or the other on the back side of the county. One of them is 'swift'.. knows his job.. gets there.. gets it done.. doesn't make mistakes.. the other is uh.. how to be nice here.. an IDIOT.. doesn't locate them half the time.. marks wrong area.. or misses half the utilities he's searching for. Last two jobs we did with him, our mixer machine wrapped up about 35 foot of fiber trunk line..... I don't know who got the bill for that one..( not us.. ) but I imagine it musta been pricey

Soundguy

Soundguy · Apr 22, 2004

( The buried wires are mine as were the overhead wires. When overhead wires between the NIMO pole and your house are taken down by a falling tree limb, guess who arranges to have an electician reinstall the overhead wires? It isn't NIMO )

Burried line ownership must be different area to area. In florida I live in a deed restricted horse community.. no overhead utilities.. All houses have buried lines to the meter side of the house.

Tele, TV and power all pop up out of the trench / chase pipe at my homes exterior wall, where the access and meter boxes are.

I have, in the last 4 years, had a problem with each at one time or another.. The tele people are very clear, that everything on the customer access side of the green box is mine.. and everything from their office to their side of the green box is theirs. In one instance.. one of the pairs died in my line ( I have 2 lines ).. they dropped another line on the ground as a temp.. then burried it a week later... said sorry/have a nice day.. shook my hand and off they went.. their nickle. Cable tv indicated the same.. everything before the main split on the side of the house was his.. the multi line splitter and all internal cable was mine.

I forget the exact problem the electric man told me.. but it was something where my line came out of the chase pipe, before it went up the power distribution pole... As with the other two.. it was their nickle for the repair.. not mine.

Soundguy

paparammer · Apr 22, 2004

Things must vary even within states. I'm also in upstate NY (east of Albany) but instead of NiMo, we have NYSEG (NY State Electric & Gas). When a big old dead pine went down and pulled the overhead wires off the house, NYSEG is the one who did the repair - no cost or involvement from us, other than having to call them.

hfd376 · Apr 22, 2004

I used to locate underground utilities here in Virginia before going to work for a broadband (cable, telephone, internet) company. Yes, different regulations per state. The best way to determine where the utility's responsibility ends would be your state's corporation commision.

Here in Virginia, for example, the power co. owns up to your meter base. Anything on your side of the meter is your responsibility. For telephone, its the NID on the side of your house. Your side of the NID and its you're property and repsonsibility. For cable tv its the same thing.

Here in Virginia it is law that you must call Miss Utility, an entity made up of utility companies, 2 weeks prior to excavation. They in turn, contact people to locate their plant in the area of the dig.

The law states that there can only be hand digging within 2 feet of the painted and flagged marks. It also provides for fines and allows billing of the person causing the damage. All of this can be waived tho The SCC should be able to tell you who is liable and to what liability.

Doug

rambler · Apr 23, 2004

Isn't anyone else on an REA coop? That's what I have, nice folks locally. Here in Minnesota we have a single 1-800 number to call before digging. If you do & hit something not marked, it's not your fault. If you don't call & hit something, you could be out a lot of bucks, depends on each individual situation. But you have at least one foot in hot water if you didn't call first....

Anyhow, the REA owns the lines up to the meter, you own after the meter. But that are real good about maintenence, if trees are a danger to your overhead wires, they will top them for you if you talk nice & wait for their slow time. They say better to do it for you than to have you do it yourself & really foul things up.

--->Paul

Junkman · Apr 28, 2004

I happened to come across this site today that give the pertinent law for all the utilities for the entire USA... I just gave it a quick look over and there may be more information there also... http://ubsinfo.com/one_call.html

LBrown59 · Dec 20, 2004

CALL 911

MikePA · Dec 20, 2004

CALL 911 
Perhaps the 911 center in your area is different (although I doubt it) but digging up a phone line is not an emergency and calling 911 for it is not appropriate. My wife used to work as a 911 dispatcher and 911 is only for police, fire or medical emergencies.

jwstewar · Dec 20, 2004

I think he was kidding - I think he was playing on the fact that the phone service is out - what do you do? Call 911. Can't call if the phone is out.

MikePA · Dec 20, 2004

I think he was kidding 
Ah...now I understand. An Instant Face, /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif , would have indicated that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif