Dumb moves

[ccatfish]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

I have to comment on the airport security as well. I have seen the bomb-sniffing dogs and baggage searches on TV, but I haven't personally seen it. Granted, I haven't been to a major international airport since the 11th, but one of the airports I often fly to is probably 2-3 minutes of flight time from the largest center of oil and chemical refineries in the country.

The only significant changes I have experienced are the wait times through security checkpoints are longer and some minimal procedural changes. I have noticed, as always, the procedures are inconsistent across airports and can even vary day to day. Today was the first time security has asked me to remove my laptop and turn it on in at least 2 years, and the same checkpoint didn't ask that last week.

The only peace of mind I have when flying is the surprise advantage has been utilized. If it happens again, every passenger on the plane would pounce. I doubt the next time (and there will be a next time) they will use commercial planes. I feel sorry for the next cuban hijacker.

As for all the various debates about civil liberties, national id cards, the carnivore program and such, here is my prediction: The bureaucrats and lawmakers will wimp out of changing anything that is highly controversial. That will leave the door open for a repeat because the most effective measures stir too much debate. After the next event, which I pray doesn't happen, the gov't will be driven by the opinion polls to take serious measures.

 

[dummy]

You can't help but feel bad (sick) over the whole situation. Lives lost, jobs lost, economy downsliding! Yet, where is all of the relief money that Congress is doling out going to come from? Does it just get added on to the deficit? Now, let's add in all of the new military appropriations for terrorism, plus the call up of guard and reserve forces (they get paid too) for airport security and antiterrorism operations. Where will it all come from? Any "expert opinions"?

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Mark,

<font color=blue>I believe most of those Boeing cancellations were prior to the 11th. Remember the airlines have had a rough year.</font color=blue>

If that is the case, then maybe they should be commended for retention of personnel after a significant reduction in their business base.

Al

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Bird,
I hope that's true. My info. was from the radio and they were talking about the only airline that had provided any form of severance was Delta. I'm glad to hear that they are all providing something. That doesn't make me feel quite as bad about the bailout.

 

[skent]

Just Announced. . . new non stop service. . . .

Steve

 

[RPM]

Proposed new World Trade Center design ...

 

[3rdbase]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

What a great service this thread has provided me. As a 767 captain for one of the airlines whose equipment was hijacked and used to commit simultaneous mass murder and suicide, I've learned a lot. Had the opportunity to attend two memorial services for friends and colleagues, and "part timers," last week. Didn't know they "overpay the pilots for a part-time job and have unions going on strike every few weeks." My family might disagree with the assesment of mine as a part time job. I sure didn't feel overpaid on 9-11 when I took of from San Francisco just as the first 767 hit the WTC and turned around my similar airplane and got my passengers safely on the ground. Funny, I always thought we negotiated our contracts under the Railway Labor Act and weren't permitted to strike unless the president allows us to, which for major airlines, he hasn't. Also glad to hear no airline ceos will take pay cuts. Today's news regarding the United ceo doing just that must be wrong. Yesterday, the announcement from American that all officers from the company would take significant pay cuts, and Don Carty, CEO, would accept no compensation for the remainder of the year. He must not have had the opportunity to read this thread. Oh well, I've so much more to learn here, and don't take this the wrong way, but I'm sure glad I didn't learn to fly here.

 

[3rdbase]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Sorry for consecutive posts, but I'm learning more all the time. Like this for instance from a previous post:
"I believe the big airlines all showed just how unpatriotic they are - Especially the ones that announced early like Continental, American and United. They've been sitting around all year trying to figure out how to downsize within the constraints of their contracts with the unions. The Sept. 11 tragedy provided them that opportunity and they pounced on it, even before they could feel the effects, then they use the layoffs to manipulate congress into passing a bailout package. Unbelievable. I put them in the same boat as the traitors in the gas station business that attempted to gouge customers within hours of the attacks."
This is truly remarkable. My unpatriotic airline goes way beyond anything required by law to support the military reserves. This industry has perhaps the most patriotic labor groups in this country. I wish you could sit in my cockpit and hear how unpartriotic myself, an ex Navy fighter pilot, and my company are. Please don't make the excuse that you only were speaking of management, they are just as patriotic as we are. The claim that airlines have been figuring out how to cutback prior to this is blatantly false. American had been hiring pilots up to the very day of the attack. If you think for one second that they acted before they felt the effects you are incredibly incorrect.
You know something gents? I have read the stuff posted by TBN guys on many different subjects over many months and have found this to be a civil group, but on this thread I am stunned by a couple things:
1. The arrogant, inaccurate and cynical tone and content of this thread, by some mopre outspoken posters.
2. The ridiculously innacurate accusations made here and the total lack of knowlege of this industry as evident by these assertions, by some posters.
If you disagree with what congress did, that's your opinion, but my God, what nonsense. Did you take the time to familiarize yourself with the contents of the relief act? Do you understand the concept of operating a transportation company in the environment of a "lottery legal system" concurrent with the inability to get insurance? Did you consider the reality of having the capital markets totally inacessible because of this tragedy? Do you understand the inevitability of every airline in this country being bankrupt with two months because of an attack on our county, and the consequences? Did you carefully consider these before authoring your posts? How about bringing up the subject of responsibility. We have been accused here of being unpatriotic. Patriotism isn't the issue. This land is full of "two beers and a Braveheart movie" patriots. How about a little responsibility? How about doing the homework before trashing an entire industry. How about asking before telling? How about giving fellow Americans the benefit of the doubt before typing lies, innacuracies and ridiculous assertions? I try to teach my children that God gave them two eyes, two ears and only one mouth for a reason. I guess I never figured 10 fingers and a keyboard would be such a threat.

 

[DaveNH]

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

<font color=blue>Management feels the unions have put them in bad financial shape and the contracts say no severance if layoffs are due to acts of war. The President says we are at war so the companies are saying, read the contract. </font color=blue>

Haven't we been at war with the "War on Drugs" for years!

We're all in this together! (3)
Retired Yuppie Tractor Owner

 

[TonyC]

I basically agree with Alan in that the government grounding the planes sticks them with part of the bill at least. I definitely support any loathing for airlines...high cost, poor service, rich executives etc. Unfortunately though, when folks don't travel the chain reaction on the rest of the economy is staggering. We can hate them all we want but if they fail our economy is doomed.