Dumb question on cattle feeding/land

[Sigarms]

Lease land to a local farmer for 30 head of cattle (lease consisting of that he bush hogs the land at least once a year, which saves me at this point on buying a tractor /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

Wife and moved in last year, house and land unoccupied for the last 4-6 years, which the farmer in question leased the land from the previous owner until we bought the land and house, same "set up", bush hog the land.

Last March when we moved in, the farmer fed the cattle just by dropping some bails of hay in different locations on the property.

End of last year, he (the farmer) brought in a "wagon" filled with hay and left it in one place, and its been there for the last 7 months.

From the pics, you can see how the area around the wagon has become "eroded" (sp?) fromt the cattle always being in the same place to feed.

My wife does not like this /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif (as far as whats happening to the area aroung the wagon) and would like me to say somthing to the farmer.

I'm curious, is this normal as far as feeding?

Live in a farming area and some of the other farms that have cattle neither of us has seen this type of feeding.

My thought is that once the wagon is removed (when, I'm not sure) the land will get vegitation (sp?) back growing on it and it will look "normal" again.

I don't want to come across as a "hard butt" to the farmer, but my wife is insistant that I ask the farmer to move the wagon "around" so the land directly around the wagon does not get in the same condition as it is now.

Any comments or thoughts?

I've found that experience is the best teacher, but I have no experience in this and again, don't want to come across as a "dumb butt" when and if I approach the famer.

Thanks.

 

[Sigarms]

One last pic. Keep in mind, the ground around the wagon "used" to look like the "green" land around it, which is one reason my wife wants it moved.

 

[swiftboot]

I would have him move the wagon and/or not bring it back except to drop off hay in varying areas. Placing hay in the same spot has the obvious affects to the grass. I guess you are getting greenbelt on the land as a result of him using the pasture. Down here we get upwards $20/a plus we keep up fences and mowing, common sense for keeping pastures in shape. How many acres of improved pasture does he graze?

 

[Sigarms]

By "greenbelt" if you mean less on taxes for "ag use", no we aren't getting anything (long story, but this per our CPA).

Only thing done on the land is that he (farmer) bush hogs it once (at least what he did last year) a year.

Again, don't want to come across as a "hard but", but we are paying the monthly payment on the land that he (farmer) uses (about 30 acres for his cattle).

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Have him move it around? And then you'll have 2 or more spots like what you already have. One rainy week and the cattle will tear up another spot. That's just the way it is when you run cows on pasture. You MIGHT get the farmer to move his hay around, but more'n likely, you'll be seeing him roll his eyes and start laughing.

 

[Sigarms]

As mentioned per the thread, "a dumb question".

My wifes point was that the previous year he (the famer) just laid some bails of hay "around" the pasture, no "effects" on the land that either of us could see.

My wife (and I agree with her) is that to "use the land", you should have a "low impact" effect on the land for your use.

Although we know nothing about farming, there are differences in what we see around us as to "farming" with cattle. Some places (not around us from what we have seen), some farms look like "junk" as far as how to pople utilize thier land with thier cattle. Places look like the "moon". Seems like such a waste. As to the local farms around us, my neighbor has over 200 acres with at least 70 head of cattle, and anywhere we look on his property, the pastures always seem green and he moves them (cattle) around.

Again, no nothing about using the land in regards to feeding cattle, but if my wife wants me to talk to him (the farmer) I will.

I consider myself a reasonable man, and considering this farmer is using the land at "no cost" other than bush hogging it once a year, I'm not sure if my "request" would be unreasonable.

Thus the reason for this post, to gather information.

Since I own the land in question, would not make sense for the farmer to "laugh and roll his eyes".

Worse case scenerio, it will give me reason to get a tractor, and all things considered, it will be more of a pain for the farmer than myself.

 

[EddieWalker]

I think you know what you want to do, you're just trying to justify it beforhand. It's your land and it's more important to keep you wife happy than worry about offending the farmer.

If he doesn't like it, all your out is a guy who will mow you land once a year. But I get the feeling your not even convinced he will do that.

I've always heard you need to cut a pasture a few times a year to keep the unwanted weeds and plants under control.

If it was me, I'd think about a new agreement that includes putting the hay out like you'd prefer it. Mowing a little more often and reseeding the area he's destroyed.

If he rolls his eyes or doesn't want to do what you want, I bet it won't be hard to find a replacement. Some places you can get people to come in and bail your hay for you with them keeping half the hay. I've also heard of people coming to your land to cut and bail all your hay and pay you for it.

30 acres is allot of hay and might be worth a few bucks to somebody who wants what's already growing there versus a guy who doesn't care if he makes a mess and isn't paying you anything to be there. One mowing a year is a pretty good deal for him!!!!

Eddie

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As mentioned per the thread, "a dumb question" )</font>

In my opinion, not dumb at all. I've seen it done both ways; always put the hay in one spot so the cattle only tear up the ground in that one place, and I've seen it frequently moved so the ground doesn't get torn up so bad, and so the "fertilizer" gets spread to different areas. Personally, I think if he's only "leasing" it for pasture, he should have asked about putting out hay because he undoubtedly knows what happens around the hay bales. So I'd just have a friendly talk with him if it were my land, and I'm bettin' he'll be glad to do whatever you want.

 

[JerryG]

Sigarms,
Anywhere you put it; it’s going to make a mess the first time that you have very much rain. The cattle will always trample the grass under and then there will be a brown spot. When it is moved, there will be a very lush spot where it was a walked in and fertilized. It will need to be bladed or dragged to level it again, but the grass will come back very thick. As long as it isn’t causing bad erosion and isn’t causing a real swamp where it is, it would be better to just leave it where it is.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

There are dozens of factors that come in to play when feeding hay on pasture during the winter. That might have effected things. For that, you need to ask the farmer. If it's a wet year, and it doesn't freeze much, it's difficult to move wagons without doing more damage with the tractor/truck. Also, cattle will wreak havoc on pastures in that sort of weather.

In a perfect world, the farmer would just as soon not have a muddy mess either.

When I was still fooling with cows, I had a couple "pads" in the pasture, made from crushed rock and lime dust. I'd set round bales on them to keep the mud to a minimum. They were about 35' in dia.

 

[Sigarms]

Eddie, your first sentence "says it all".

I also think that the "deal" that he is getting is also playing a part in my thinking.

JerryG, understand about the "issues" of "digging it up" as far as feeding the cattle, just wondering about why we didn't have any of these issues last year and guess I will need to talk to him about it.

Bird, I hope you're right.

Farmwithjunk, those "pads" may be a good idea, but may be too much work that the farmer wants to do.

Thinking about it, I guess it just comes down to a communication issue. Fact is we hardly talk to this farmer at all (in a year, maybe twice, and we always have to approach him when we see him).

The previous owner had horses, we're not ready to go that route yet.

Where the farmer has the hay sitting is right by an access road on the property that leads to the road that goes by our house. My wife gets to look at that hay everyday when she goes into town.

I am curious, will need to talk with my neighbor, becuase it seems when he feeds most of his cattle, he spreds the hey down a hill, where the cattle then eat it. From what I've seen, he has very little "impact" on his land. Just want to be careful of my wording because the two (neighbor and farmer) know each other.

In retrospect, may change this "agreement" to more of a "business decision". Find out the local rate for cattle per head and what people pay compared to bush hogging.

Tried to keep things "status quo" when we moved in, but the more I think about it, this guy does have a very "sweet deal".

 

[HammerFour]

Personally I would call the county ag agent and ask what decent quality pasture is leasing for per acre per year.

Then I would offer to let this farmer pay that per year and also ask him to improve his land management practice so that the hay feeding area doesn't get messed up that way.

I'm certainly not going to buy 30 acres so this guy can use it for free.

And keep in mind I am working on leasing some land from an absentee owner for pasture at this time, so I am in the farmer's shoes.

The amount you get for the lease may not be a huge amount ( around here its $15 - 25 per acre per year based on the quality of the pasture ) but at least it may offset some of the taxes you are paying on it.

 

[HammerFour]

Personally I would call the county ag agent and ask what decent quality pasture is leasing for per acre per year.

Then I would offer to let this farmer pay that per year and also ask him to improve his land management practice so that the hay feeding area doesn't get messed up that way.

I'm certainly not going to buy 30 acres so this guy can use it for free.

And keep in mind I am working on leasing some land from an absentee owner for pasture at this time, so I am in the farmer's shoes.

The amount you get for the lease may not be a huge amount ( around here its $15 - 25 per acre per year based on the quality of the pasture ) but at least it may offset some of the taxes you are paying on it.

 

[Unclebuck257]

First of all, you have an agreement in effect right now and even though it may be only by word of mouth, I think you need to honor it!! The farmer probably doesn't have a clue that you and your wife are upset and with her being upset, I'm sure you're hearing about it daily!! That's got you riled up more probably than it would normally.

Talk to the farmer, in a man to man conversation, and just level with him that you don't like the hay being put out as he did this time. I'll bet you he'll be very willing to change it around. He probably doesn't have clue one that you two are upset or don't like it.

Also, before you change your agreement with him, remember it's your word and your handshake at stake here. IF you decide to change your agreement, give this farmer options, and at least two months to find another place for his cattle.

When I put out round bales for our cattle, I'll usually move it around each time within a certain area, but that area really isn't that big. Yes the cattle tear up the grass in that area, but it also regrows every spring and usually richer and higher than any other area because of all the fertilizer the cattle left. This past year, with our severe drought, I noticed the ground being torn up much more than in years past, so I moved the hay bales around and expanded the haying area to a bigger area generally.

You see, I used to graze my cattle on 27 acres owned by the neighbor right next to me, in addition to our place. The neighbor himself is a fine young man, but his wife is a real patoot!! The grazing was done on a handshake and with the agreement that if they wanted to change it, I would get 30 days notice. They got a BIG ag exemption on taxes and I got 27 additional acres to graze on. I also fixed up an entire length of their barbed wire fence to make sure the cattle were secure too.

When it was terminated, I got 3 days notice. I still like that young man, but I lost all respect for him at that point. His word wasn't worth much in my opinion. Don't do the same thing with that farmer. Oh, and his wife demanded our cattle be removed immediately because she had a friend with 8 head who needed a place to graze..AFTER I fixed up their fence!

 

[Unclebuck257]

First of all, you have an agreement in effect right now and even though it may be only by word of mouth, I think you need to honor it!! The farmer probably doesn't have a clue that you and your wife are upset and with her being upset, I'm sure you're hearing about it daily!! That's got you riled up more probably than it would normally.

Talk to the farmer, in a man to man conversation, and just level with him that you don't like the hay being put out as he did this time. I'll bet you he'll be very willing to change it around. He probably doesn't have clue one that you two are upset or don't like it.

Also, before you change your agreement with him, remember it's your word and your handshake at stake here. IF you decide to change your agreement, give this farmer options, and at least two months to find another place for his cattle.

When I put out round bales for our cattle, I'll usually move it around each time within a certain area, but that area really isn't that big. Yes the cattle tear up the grass in that area, but it also regrows every spring and usually richer and higher than any other area because of all the fertilizer the cattle left. This past year, with our severe drought, I noticed the ground being torn up much more than in years past, so I moved the hay bales around and expanded the haying area to a bigger area generally.

You see, I used to graze my cattle on 27 acres owned by the neighbor right next to me, in addition to our place. The neighbor himself is a fine young man, but his wife is a real patoot!! The grazing was done on a handshake and with the agreement that if they wanted to change it, I would get 30 days notice. They got a BIG ag exemption on taxes and I got 27 additional acres to graze on. I also fixed up an entire length of their barbed wire fence to make sure the cattle were secure too.

When it was terminated, I got 3 days notice. I still like that young man, but I lost all respect for him at that point. His word wasn't worth much in my opinion. Don't do the same thing with that farmer. Oh, and his wife demanded our cattle be removed immediately because she had a friend with 8 head who needed a place to graze..AFTER I fixed up their fence!