Educate me on having cattle

[nybirdman]

After having beef for 20+years;my advise Sell them all.Too many head-achs.You have to feed them,keep them fenced in(you are liable),keep them healthy.I would never have a bull again,way too dangerous.
Ours went down the road many years ago.Beef is cheap at the store compared to raising a small herd.

 

[newbury]

Well Eddie, things get trickier if your bulls "pedigree" is a bunch of bull.
But if you planned on keeping cattle anyways it seems like an opportune time to salvage as much of the equipment if you can and as many of the cows that you can easily handle. And maybe add a small herder dog to your kennel.

 

[Spike56]

With the recent passing of my brother, I'm in the process of taking ownership of his cattle. He has a 40 acre farm about 60 miles from my place. I have 68 acres. He has 15 Herford's and one Angus bull. From what I understand, he just bought the bull for $3,500 and he was wanting to cross breed the Herford's with the Angus to create Black Baldies.

Of the Herford's, there are 11 cows, but some might be heifers. I don't know their ages or history. There is one steer, and three intact, young bulls.

He does not have any type of handling system. From what I've been able to figure out, the got them into a fenced area that's probably 100x100 feet, then he used gates to funnel them into his trailer. I don't know how often he loaded them up, but I did find a receipt from the Van Zandt Livestock Exchange from earlier this year for a single cow.

Some of the cows have ear tags, some don't. None of the bulls have ear tags.

Some of the cows might be pregnant. They look like they are getting big around the belly. A lot wider then some of the others.

I do not have any records of any of them, but there might be something in his safe, which I still have to get into.

I'm currently feeding them 3 round bales a week of hay that I had planned on feeding my horses this winter. They are eating a lot of hay, way faster then I expected. I do not have enough hay to feed the cattle and my animals, so I'm going to have to buy a lot more, which is going to be expensive.

I need a plan.

I've started fencing part of my place that will be 24 acres when done. Eventually I'll fence in all of my land, but it's slow going and expensive. I do not have anywhere to put his cattle on my place right now, I'm maxed out with horses and goats.

Option 1 is to leave the cattle there and fence in my place, then bring them here and create a handling system, bigger barn and improve my pastures.

Option 2 is to do the same, but only bring the cows and Angus bull here, and leave the Herford bulls and steer there. I also think that I need to turn the bulls into steers, but I've never done this, and I don't know if it's too late or not. I will have to build a handling system to do this too, but I think I need to build it just to load animals.

Option 3 is to sell some of them right away. I'm planning on going to the Van Zandt Livestock Exchange next week. They have it every Saturday, and I drive right past it getting to my brothers place. The parking lot is full of trucks with trailers. I've never sold cattle, or been to an auction. So I need to figure this out right away. I think that the bulls and steer are too young to sell, but I don't really know for sure. I could get rid of some cows, but I don't know how to tell which ones should go and which should stay? My brother has a few friends that raise Herford's that have offered to help, but have been very slow to respond when I've asked questions. Or they reply that they will get back to me, and haven't. I think that I'm going to have to learn this on my own and help from others isn't gonna happen.

Option 4 is to sell all of them, cash out, focus on getting my land ready for cattle and my pace, and then buy cattle when I'm ready for them. I think this is the easy way out, and maybe the smart thing to do, but it goes against everything I believe in. My wife and I really want to keep the cattle, and build up a program to raise and sell them.

What would you do?

If I sold them at the Livestock Exchange, what should I know? Will they want proof of ownership? Proof of shots or medical records? I'll ask when I go there, but I'm hoping to have a small amount of knowledge before walking in there blind. Livestock Auction | Van Zandt Livestock Exchange | United States

And then there is the ultimate dream for all this as of right now. We buy the 40 acres, develop it into a hay ranch. The grass is really nice there, but its being chocked out with weeds and mesquite. I can clear the mesquite, spray and mow the weeds and end up with some really nice hay. I don't have any hay equipment, so that will be another challenge, but not too significant. Then it will also become our steer pasture, where we bring the steers from our place and let them grow out on his place before selling them at the Livestock Auction, just down the road. The cows and Angus Bull will do their thing at our place and we'll focus on breeding them here.

Doable? bad idea? other then spending lots of money, and there not being enough time to do all of this, what else am I missing?

Thanks


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Based on your situation, and assuming that you will not inherit the land, I would sell all. There should be NO surprises at the Auction and I do not believe that any Steer / Bull / Heifer or Cow you have is too young to sell. Not only is 60 miles a long way to keep up with cattle, but winter approaching and feeding hay all the time will be needed. I think you will cause yourself a LOT of issues trying to get the rest of your place fenced, perhaps improvements to your pens, all the other things you need to do.
If you do sell before the end of the year, you might have an issue with the taxes. Assuming you have an AG exemption, profits from the cattle sale could be used to further improvements on your place - buy fencing...etc.
I don't think you are missing much other than the money and time (as you mentioned) in figuring out what to do ? I *assume* if you choose to keep them, I would not bring them to your place - sounds cramped and not enough area fenced. If you leave them there, you need water and will have to buy hay ($$), then of course feed it. If you feed 60miles away, I dont know what you'd use , how you would easily unwrap bales and get them put out.
I would bet, if you decided to sell them, someone at the Auction will know of people that can help load them and transport to the Auction.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm about to head to my brothers place to meet one of the guys he bought some of his Hereford's from. Of all his friends that have come by his place, he is the only one the broke down when talking about Todd. He seems like a good guy that was a real friend to my brother, so I'm going to listen to what he has to say and hopefully form a plan on what to do.

I'm also going to swing by the Livestock Exchange and see if I can talk to somebody there. I've found that I get more information meeting people face to face instead of calling or emailing them.

While thinking about doing AI instead of having a bull, I found a guy just a few miles from my place that does this. I've only seen the website and FB page, but I think it's encouraging. I'm trying to decide if I should swing by there and talk to him, or wait until I have the animals here. I'm also wondering if he could give me some advice on what to build to handle the cattle if he came her to inseminate them. Seems like a smart way to do this by building it to his specifications. Fowler Reproductive Services | Gladewater, TX 75647

On another website, I found all sorts of semen for sale. There are too many options for me to know what I'm looking at, but the prices varies from Commercial Bulls and $10 bucks a straw, to Registered Bulls and $40 to $50 a straw, on up to $100 or more. Any idea what they charge to do this? Ballpark for what you pay in your area so I can know if it's a good idea or not. Seems to me it would be cheaper to have the cows impregnated AI then it would be to feed and keep a bull all year that's only needed a few times a year.

Hereford Semen - Bovine Elite

We have the best Hereford, Polled Hereford Bull Semen, the top sires in the country for your cattle AI program

www.bovine-elite.com

 

[Spike56]

I'm about to head to my brothers place to meet one of the guys he bought some of his Hereford's from. Of all his friends that have come by his place, he is the only one the broke down when talking about Todd. He seems like a good guy that was a real friend to my brother, so I'm going to listen to what he has to say and hopefully form a plan on what to do.

I'm also going to swing by the Livestock Exchange and see if I can talk to somebody there. I've found that I get more information meeting people face to face instead of calling or emailing them.

While thinking about doing AI instead of having a bull, I found a guy just a few miles from my place that does this. I've only seen the website and FB page, but I think it's encouraging. I'm trying to decide if I should swing by there and talk to him, or wait until I have the animals here. I'm also wondering if he could give me some advice on what to build to handle the cattle if he came her to inseminate them. Seems like a smart way to do this by building it to his specifications. Fowler Reproductive Services | Gladewater, TX 75647

On another website, I found all sorts of semen for sale. There are too many options for me to know what I'm looking at, but the prices varies from Commercial Bulls and $10 bucks a straw, to Registered Bulls and $40 to $50 a straw, on up to $100 or more. Any idea what they charge to do this? Ballpark for what you pay in your area so I can know if it's a good idea or not. Seems to me it would be cheaper to have the cows impregnated AI then it would be to feed and keep a bull all year that's only needed a few times a year.

Hereford Semen - Bovine Elite

We have the best Hereford, Polled Hereford Bull Semen, the top sires in the country for your cattle AI program

www.bovine-elite.com

No ideas on $$ for AI. But, it is sounding like you have made the decision to keep some/all ? I have never had AI services so do not know what type of corral / trap you'd need to get setup. I do know even a quality headgate (which would not be enough) is outrageously expensive. At least I think so.
It is good you have a friend / friends. Maybe they can feed for you if close and you decide to keep most of the herd.

 

[Streetcar]

For ai the vet can give shot to coordinate servicing. You want to do entire herd at one time.We used headgate for our cattle breeding

 

[ponytug]

We did AI before getting our bull. We used to haul our cows to the vet for a month to be bred there. It was a bit hit/miss because the cows weren't here, and stress affects AI success rates.

To do it on site, you need a squeeze chute with a pregnancy check (palpitation cage) double door attached, which we now have. But we have been using a bull for the last decade or so, as the success rate is higher. However, and it is a big however, he was an exceptionally gentle and reasonable hand reared bull. (So, yes, you probably want to have a corral with gates, optionally an alley coming off of it, a sweep into an alley into the palpitation cage attached to a squeeze with an automatic head gate. All but the last two you can build or buy; the cage and squeeze are a buy item.) As cattle are easily distracted by light and things outside, I prefer sweeps and alleys with closed sides, taller than the cattle.

Livestock Handling Systems, Cattle Corrals, Stockyards, Lairages, and Races

https://www.amazon.com/Temple-Grandins-Guide-Working-Animals/dp/1612127444

Temple Grandin is the expert. Almost every commercial cattle facility in the US was designed by her, or uses her advice. Her designs have been proven over time to be the most effective.

The huge positive to AI is that you can choose different bulls for different cows to get the offspring closer to what your "ideal". Your local AI person should be able to advise you that.
https://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Guide-Raising-Beef-Cattle/dp/1635860393

All the best,

Peter

 

[ponytug]

For ai the vet can give shot to coordinate servicing. You want to do entire herd at one time.We used headgate for our cattle breeding

@EddieWalker if you go this route I would be very, very careful with the hormone shots. The active material has a profound effect on humans. Read the package insert before using it, and follow the instructions carefully, including cleanup and disposal.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Torvy]

keep them fenced in(you are liable)

Texas is by default an open range state. Counties can close it. Depending on Eddie's county, he may Not be liable. Still, fencing is a good idea.

My county is open range. If I want my neighbors cattle out, I need to fence them out. If they get into the road, it is the driver's fault if they hit livestock.

 

[Spike56]

Texas is by default an open range state. Counties can close it. Depending on Eddie's county, he may Not be liable. Still, fencing is a good idea.

My county is open range. If I want my neighbors cattle out, I need to fence them out. If they get into the road, it is the driver's fault if they hit livestock.

Technically, you are correct about an open range state. BUT: see an article from Texas A&M AgriLife. " This common law, however, is not the end of the story. Although this law may be applicable in portions of the state, it is certainly not the law for all areas or all roadways in Texas. Two exceptions modify this common law rule for certain areas: stock laws and a statute pertaining to federal and state highways".
I do not want to get into a raging debate here. Just responding because I cannot even imagine NOT having my cattle fenced in! WOW. at least mine would wonder off who knows where. There are times I wish they would.