Dump Trailer

[Iplayfarmer]

I am seriously considering building a small scale dump trailer to use around the yard. I could use any input, advice, and help that you all have to offer.

I currently have various projects where I am moving piles of dirt, manure, rocks, etc. Using the FEL as a wheel barrow is better than a wheel barrow but still leaves room for improvement. I am thinking about a small dump cart that I could fill with my Iseki TX1500 w/FEL and pull behind my Massey MF12 garden tractor. Look both of those tractors up and you will realize that I am truly talking about small scale here.

I plan to use hydraulics for the dump. I've already got a pair of 2" rams. I'm thinking I can get a small used hydraulic pump that I can run off the engine of the MF12. I might even use a power steering pump, since some come with a built in reservoir tank. The most costly thing so far will probably be the valve. I hope that I can learn enough building this that I can then go on to build more invloved implements.

I anticipate that I'll be posting with progress, questions, etc. over the course of a few months.

I'm just in the design and gather materials stage right now. My first thing to decide is two wheel or four wheel.

Also, is hydraulic the best way to dump this?
What are some good suggestions for cheap wheels, hubs, and axles?
Should I figure in some kind of scissor lift for the dump or just go straight with the rams?

 

[MrJimi]

I would recommend going and look at others out there and gather your ideas and make one better than the others, shouldn't hard to do, lots of tried and tested designs out there
Jim

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I would recommend going and look at others out there and gather your ideas and make one better than the others, shouldn't hard to do, lots of tried and tested designs out there
Jim

Believe me, I've been looking. That's one of the reasons I wanted to ask the questions here too. This is the best place I've found for practical real world experience.

Who has had good or bad experiences with a four wheeled cart? Who has had good or bad experiences with a two wheeled cart? What are the real-world practical disadvantages to each?

I'm pretty sure that the four wheeled cart will be harder to build and I know it will be harder to maneuver. Will the additional payload and stability be worth it?

I'm going to the scrap yard tomorrow to see if I can pick up some channel or tubing for the frame. Wish me luck.

 

[MrJimi]

I used to do the used steel route and I hate rust and dings and holes and bends and twist, Now I buy new straight steel for around .60 per pound.
It comes in 20 or 24 feet long and I have a DeWalt chopsaw and the steel supply has a $300. minimum and I buy more than I will need like some for the next project. The time wasted in a scrap yard looking through something the person paid .04 cents per pound and selling it for lots more is not my thing. I have made lots of things, take a look in my gallery


How big, wide, long, heavy duty do you want your trailer? ya have to take all that in consideration
Jim

 

[Willl]

How many Iseki scoops you plan to haul behind the MF ?

 

[have_blue]

IAlso, is hydraulic the best way to dump this?
What are some good suggestions for cheap wheels, hubs, and axles?
Should I figure in some kind of scissor lift for the dump or just go straight with the rams?

Hydraulic is the way to go if you have a remote. (good excuse to add one!)

Avoid making the trailer too long. It's harder to dump. Avoid making the pivot too far rearward. Overbuild! Dirt is heavy, and eats lightly-built dump trailers for lunch. I had a big "dirt giveaway" in my new pond, and saw about 5 of them damaged from overloading. It was pitiful.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I hadn't thought about how many scoops I'd want. Good point. Thanks.

I do know that I want the cart 4' wide max. I am in the process of converting all of my gates, etc. to accomodate my tractor and 4' implements. I think I'll want it a little longer than that...say 5'. Some of that is going to be determined by what material I can find. I'm thinking the sides could be about 18" high from the floor of the trailer. The box of the trailer would then be one cubic yard. That's quite a few scoops with my little loader. I might build a rack later to go up from that if I end up hauling leaves, branches, etc. that aren't as heavy.

Does anyone have a rule of thumb for the weight of a cubic yard of dry dirt?

Another question...

Do I use the pair of rams or just a single ram in the middle? Once again this is a question of effort vs. reward. It will be more effort and cost to set up the two rams but is the resultant stability and power worth it? Another thing to consider is that the single ram will be faster than the pair.

If I can get the standard weight of a yard of dirt I can start putting the pencil to it and see if the single will do it.

 

[CTyler]

Depends on how dry but aprox 2500# and aprox 3000#+ if damp.

I have a 4x8 2 ton dump trailer and it uses a single 3" x 24" cylinder.
Never had any problems dumping wet dirt other than some minor sticking.
My bucket holds a ~1/2 yard and I put four loads into it.

 

[MrJimi]

Come up with some kind of size and payload and we can help you heaps more. You tilt should be fine with just one ram, remember it has to push up and not back or forward, slight angle and the double axle will be a plus, it won't teeter-totter with a load or dumping.
Jim

 

[bx23barry]

A yard of dirt is gonna be a load for your Massey MF12 garden tractor. figure about 3'w x 6'L x 18"H for the bed. I think 4 wheels is a good idea for a small trailer with more than a ton on it behind that little tractor (might think about brakes).

 

[Renze]

With a dumper that small, i wouldnt take the added cost of hydraulics.
Over here in Holland, you can still find some old 4 yard wheelbarrow style dumpwagons, they were a sort of gravity dump. Just like the industrial scrapbins which can be carried on a forklift, and tip by releasing a latch with a lever.

Here's a pic of one:
http://www.werktuigen.nl/Pics/Items/verkoop^6471^1155233065.JPG

On the front is a latch, on the rear of the bucket is a 1/4 hoop that makes the bucket roll over to the back. Two tiebars keep the bucket from rolling off the back of the frame when dumping. These dump bowls, when empty,
usually swing back like a pendulum and hook right into the latch.


Another one is here:
Hekamp

If you make it spring return, and put it on a triangle frame with drawbar and an axle, you have a nice dumpwagon.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

2500# and aprox 3000#+ if damp.

Woa! That's a little bit of dirt. I may scale back a bit. BX23Barry might be right about the four wheels. I think that would be the right way to go. Now I just have to figure that mechanism out.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

So, I just got back from the scrap yard. I won't say I found the mother load, but I was pretty pleased with the selection. There was a bunch of 2" square tubing in 4 ft. lengths (pictured) and most of a sheet of diamond plate.

Back to design, though...

I looked up some garden carts that pull behind these lawn tractors, and the biggest one I found is about 20 cu. ft. I'll probably stick to that size. In addition to that I realized that my four foot width has to include the wheels. I'll probably go with something close to 3 feet by 4 feet by 18 inches.

As for wheels, I saw this design for a four wheeled cart.
http://www.towattachments.com/71-29747.wmv

This design would still put a load on the little garden tractor, but I wouldn't have to come up with a steering mechanism.

 

[MrJimi]

Heck, if thats all you want, go to a body shop and buy a damaged pickup truck bed for next to nuttin and put yur axles under it
I thought meant a trailer
Jim

 

[3RRL]

I am seriously considering building a small scale dump trailer to use around the yard. I could use any input, advice, and help that you all have to offer.

Here's a thread on building one from scratch (pretty much). It has a detailed narration and lots of photos showing the building process. Might be of value to look at it.
BUILDING A DUMP TRAILER

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Heck, if thats all you want, go to a body shop and buy a damaged pickup truck bed for next to nuttin and put yur axles under it
I thought meant a trailer
Jim

Keep in mind here that one of the major reasons I want to build the Dump trailer is to get some experience with engineering and fabrication. If I feel pretty confident after building this garden size dump trailer, I may build a "full size" dump trailer to pull behind my truck. I might also build a micro-hoe for the Iseki.

Thanks for the link, Rob. That was actually very helpful.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm stalled right now in the design stage trying to figure out what wheels to use. I was just going to use rear hubs from an old Chrylser front wheel drive compact car because they bolt off flat, but there are two problems. My friend who runs a salvage yard seems to think they're worth more than I do, and the smallest rims that he can get me are 13 inch.

I looked at our local army surplus store that nearly always has some good lawn and garden size wheels, but all they had today was either way too small or way too big.

What I'd really like is a set of front hubs, rims, and tires off of a 2 wheel drive ATV. There's a motorcycle salvage yard about 20 miles from here. I may call him on Monday and see what he's got.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I've skipped the wheels part of the design phase for now and I'm working through the hydraulic dump mechanism.

Here are my calculations...

Worst case scenario (hardest to dump) will be if I have everything from the fulcrum (hinge) forward loaded with damp dirt and nothing on behind the fulcrum (no cantilevering effect). I am planning a 3 foot wide box with the fulcrum 3 foot back and 1.5 foot sides. This is 1/2 yard. According to Ctyler's estimate, this would require for a 1500 pound upward force.

The minimum pressure pump I would get would be 1700 PSI, and I have a 2" cylinder that is 24" retracted and 36" extended. This provides just over 5300 pounds of push force. I ran the numbers once already for attaching the cylinder base near the front and pushing back. This was going to require me to have the base of the cylinder something like 14" below the deck, and When fully extended it would only dump the trailer to about 33 degrees. That was not acceptable. If I attach the cylinder to the furthest forward point on the dump bed and the base of it in front of the rear axle, I only need a 16.3 degree angle to provide the 1500 pounds of upward force. I would have to have the base of the cylinder at least 6.72 inches below the deck. I can live with that. This also will dump the bed to about 51 degrees.

I'm planning on putting some kind of swing gate on the back. On level ground the bottom of the gate will be 16" below the fulcrum point when the bed is fully dumped. This means that whatever tires and wheels I get are going to need to put the bed up at least 16". I would probably be happy with 20".

 

[john_bud]

play,

for your wheels, why not buy stub axles for a trailer and the hubs that go with them? Buy some thick wall square tube to connect the 2 stubs and weld the snot out of them. Drill 4 holes and plug weld. Then you can buy tire/wheel from a junk yard, typically for your load a tire in the 215x70x14 would be good. You will want to mount the frame of the bed above the top of the wheels to get your dump clearance.

If you want to plan for the future, build the trailer large enough to hold the tractor. You never know...

jb

 

[EddieWalker]

Just a few thoughts.

If you make the trailer long and thin, than dirt will build up and hang on the sides. Wider is better. The other issue is how high will the bed have to go up in order to dump?

A few ideas I had about building a dump trailer awhile ago was to make it a bottom dump.

First is I'd use some car axles with leaf springs on a solid frame. Best deal would be to find a mini truck that's thrashed. No engine, body or anything else besides the axles and frame. It would be easy to adapt the front wheels to turn with the hitch. Four tires would make if very stable and it would be big enough to haul two yards.

Framing up the sides is pretty straight forward and should be simple enough.

I thought of two ways to dump, but never went any further than just think about them. Both require double doors that open in the middle and lengthwise.

The difference is how they open. One way would be to have a quick release latch that you could open from the seat of the tractor. Pull a lever or a chain or something and it pulls the locking mechanism. Maybe a pin or a latch similar to a safe. Have a rod go up and down the length of the opening to hold all the weight, but when pulled, it opens up. Simple mechanical advantage and leverage should be able to handle the weight without any issues.

Then when the dirt drops out the bottom, the back axle drives over the dirt as you go back for another load. The bottom doors will need some sort of spring or counter weight to close or at least get the doors out of the way so they are not ran over if they are too big to just hang. Again, I didn't work out any details.

The other way would be to use a hydraulic cylinder to open and close the bottom opening like the big rigs do it. This would be more involved and cost more, but probably be easier to design.

Two yards on a stable platform should be too dificult to pull with a small tractor. You won't be going very fast and after a few times you'd know what it can and can't do.

I figure a yard of dry dirt is closer to 2,200 pounds, but that's just what I use for my figuring. It could be more, but it really won't matter to much if you're not trying to lift it to dump it.

Good luck,
Eddie