DUMP TRAILERs Scissor vs Straight Cylinder

[del]

I have been looking at the numerous dump trailers on the
market and I haven't had it explained to me to my satisfaction
why a manufacturer will make two 6x10 10,000 Gross Wt trailers
one with just a cylinder mounted to a plate on the underside
of the bed and another trailer with the "scissor lift" type
mechanism. The scissor lift is usually on a beefier trailer
but not always.

The scissor lift seems mounted over a larger area which seems
like a better way to go.

Funny thing is I usually see the single post cylinder (w/o
the scissor lift) on trailers that have a tailgate that
would allow you to spread gravel.

Unless you driveway is glass smooth moving the trailer with
that cylinder up seems a recipe for disaster.

Any input would be appreciated on what you all are using or
think about this as my answers from dealers contradict each
other dramatically.

Although I hate to walk into a purchase ignorant, it's nice
to be a "virgin" about SOMETHING at least, once again!

del

Kubota L35, JD4210, Ford 1710, JD GT235 (most of the rainbow)
Hours on Tractors 1600, hours on operator 455,000

 

[Deerlope]

Mine you I am no expert on this subject but this is the way I see them. A single post dump will usually only go to about a 45drg. angle make it hard to get sticky suff to slide out, top soil for one. As for dump spreading it can being tricky on rough ground, just don't raise the box all the way at the start.
A sissors lift will usually put the box almost at a 90drg. angle. Thats the way I see them anyway.

 

[have_blue]

A single cylinder seems a bit weak, but the strength of the dumping mechanism is not in the cylinder.

The rear hinge must be very robust, and free from slack in all directions. The cylinder merely lifts the dump bed. It does not encounter any side loading. When lifting starts, the cylinder is stiff because it is not full extended. Once lifting starts, weight is transferred to the hinge. By the time the cylinder is extended a lot, nearly all the weight is on the hinge.

I may build a dump trailer some day, and I will try to balance it to where it nearly dumps itself.

 

[SPIKER]

Have BLue:

I built a dump trailer this past summer it does work well BUT with the DUMP HINGE closer to the middel it makes it hard to get the unit loaded, mine has a tendenancy to tip backwards into the dump mode if the load is not first filled up on the front half of the trailer first. mind you i built mine very short so that I could manuver it through my woods and stream to get the wash gravel out of the stream. it does work great for that but I can only pull it with tractor into there and then have to disconnect it and leave it on jacks untill it is full then reconnect it and drag it to where I want to dump it. (need tractor for filling trailer.) I haven't done it yet butI have ot build some stabelizor jacks for the back half of the trailer to keep it form tipping. I is not bad when 2 people are using it as one can say dump it farther up in front or center ect. but looking into trailer is hard form tractor seat.

biggest reason for sizzor vs straight is the fact that people build trailers different. one of the bigtgest is the hing point if moved fatrher forward a single cylinder is fine, if it is back at the end so you can load wheeld vehical into it then the sisor lift will move it much farther up and let the dump work, usually the sisors won't lift as much weight but will lift it higher.

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[rozett]

I have seen them with two lift cylinders also.... but I would stay away from those.

What are you guys seeing for pricing of these trailers? I am in the market for a 10-12K unit myself to haul firewood. I see prices in Florida much cheaper (20-30%) than here in the northeast. I keep an eye out on Ebay, but that is really a sellers marketplace.... unless you are very lucky.

 

[755inNY]

del,

I do not have any experience with a scissor lift. I have a 6x12, 10,000 gross dump trailer with a single cylinder. It works great even when loaded heavy. The couple of times it has failed to lift when requested was due to a bad electrical connection. My neighbor has another brand 6x12 10,000 gross with dual cylinders and power down. He has had nothing but problems with this trailer. I don't know if it is the hydraulic design and keeping the system balanced or what but he has had to off load by hand too many times (even with light loads)

I have never found a need for power down. Even with a partially dumped trailer I have been able to lower the box.

If the scissors type provides more dump angle, as others have suggested, it might be worth considering. With my cylinder lift trailer you have to pull forward to empty the box completely. This leaves an elongated pile almost the length of the box.

When selecting a trailer, look for one built heavy duty. The frame can be subjected to a lot of twisting when the loaded box is raised.

Jeff

 

[jmc]

Mine is a 6 ft 8 inch by 12 ft EZ-Dump (good name for a laxative), low profile with corner tie downs for hauling skid steers or compact tractors. 10,000 lb gross with power down twin cylinders. It tilts to 45 degrees, which looks pretty high when you're standing there. That's steep enough to unload damp clay. I think the power down is for safety so it can't slam down. Don't know how the other kind works- maybe a flow control valve? Also don't know why you were advised to avoid twins unless for extra cost or more to go wrong. Seems like less racking stress with an off center load.

John

 

[rambler]

Actually, the power down prevents the trailer from slamming _up_ if it is built with a long tail. Too much weight back there & single-acting hydraulics will allow the trailer to dump on it's own. I did that once with the old farm dump truck and a load of wet corn that didn't flow as it had packed - oh my, talk about EZ-Dump, that was me at the moment! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

In the older designs, the twin cylinders are fed by a common hyd line, so the cylinder with least resistance would lift more - the load can actually twist & tilt more with 2 cylinders than one centered cylinder, as an uneven load is picked up by one corner in reality. I don't know if they have improved that situation with different plumbing/ valving on new twins.

The sissors lift loses some power to provide a higher lift - all should be engineered out to work properly with the particular hinge spacing & load limit of the particular trailer.

--->Paul

 

[jmc]

Paul,

The hinge on this trailer is clear at the back and the sidewalls are low so there is not much chance of an EZ-Dump moment.

Your point about about racking with twin cylinders is a good one and it hadn't occured to me. Both cylinders are fed by the same line via a "T". Its similiar to bending a 4 in one bucket jaw by clamping hard on something on one side of the bucket.

John

 

[jsimon]

I built a 5 x 10' lat year with a 5000# capacity. I bought the plans on the internet for it. The plans called out for 1 4" cylinder to dump it. I modified the plan to use 2 - 2 1/2" cylinders. I wanted 2 cylinders to KEEP it from twisting. The hinge is approx 18 inches from the rear of the trailer.

The trailer works great, but I would change several things,

1. I would use a sissor lift
2. I would make it as wide as possible (I load my BX22 on it, but I have to remove the mmm every time i load it)
3. I would make it power down, I have a flow control on it to regulate the speed when it is lowered with a load, but when it is cold out (Michigan weather) it lowers toooo slow.

Ok, sissor lift vs cylinder: In my humble opinion, the sissor lit would give you more dumping capacity, plus incresed dump angle (45 deg vs 50+ deg) becuase with the cylinder type the cylinder is laying almost flat, with a HEAVY load, the dump box does not want to start dumping (it is pushing almost strait against itself). The intial "breakover" is incredible.There have been times when I have had to help the box up for the first few inches.

The sissor lifts ae designed to accomadate this, thats why they are on dump trucks.

Sorry for the long post.

Hope that helps

 

[farmyid]

I just returned this evening from buying a used (four years old) 6'5' x12' 10,000 dump trailer. It is a single cylinder design that tilts to 65 degrees. the manufacturer, Carmate, says that the dump will lift 10,000lbs which is 3000 more than the rated load capacity of the trailer when you subtract the weight of the trailer itself from the GVW. Another cool thing about this trailer is that it has ramps that store underneath and is low enough to load equipment on, like my tractor! I paid $3200 and a new one in my area is $5600 and change. They have a web site which you can see the trailer on but if I go there to find the address right now I will lose this letter! Mark

 

[rozett]

Where did you find a used one? I have been looking for several months and see almost nothing for sale except new.

 

[OkeeDon]

I have no experience with the scissor lift; in fact, I had no experience at all until I bought my trailer. I got incredibly lucky and found one on EBay less than 1 hour from my property with a Buy It Now price of $1,800. Since I had been looking for some time, I didn't hesitate - I had it bought, paid for and back home long before the auction was due to end.

It's a 6' x 12' U-Dump with 12,000# gross. I've had it to the landfill a couple of times, so I weighed it on their scale, and the empty trailer comes to about #2,600#. It has a single cylinder lift to about 45 degrees. The hinges are about 2' forward from the back of the trailer. It dumps lighter loads effortlessly; I haven't had it full of dirt, yet. I've been doing some remodeling and have been hauling wood, drywall, etc., to the landfill. Once I have it tilted up, I climb in the truck and drive forward rapidly, and it all emptys out. It goes up so easily that I'm sure it will handle a full load of heavy material. Legally, I won't be able to fill it full of dirt -- it measures out to hold about 5 cubic yards struck, but that much dirt will weight about 12,500#, so it looks like the most I can carry and stay close to the weight rating is 4 cubic yards. It is gravity down with a flow control, which is nice, especially since I have no cold weather to slow it down.

Why so cheap? It isn't perfect. It has a single swinging rear door, and the hinges are slightly bent - it fits well when closed, but lowers to a drooping position when swung open and hooked to the side of the trailer. It also has some rust -- one side of the bottom has rusted away. I needed to use it right away and didn't have my welder set up, so I bolted 3 - 6' x 4' pieces of 3/4 plywood in the bottom for a temporary fix. Two of the tires are marginal. I spent $18 for two new sealed bulb inserts in the Wesbar sealed marine taillights, and $10 for a new wiring harness. I also spent $20 at Wally World for a little automatic trickle charger that mounts to the side of the battery box, and I plug it into an extension cord every once in a while. I do have a charge circuit wired up to my truck, but I don't tow it long enough to recharge the battery.

Still, at the price I paid, I'm ahead of the game. The electo-hydraulics are fine, the battery is good, the 4 wheel brakes are good, the frame is straight, the dump hinges are fine, and once I weld in a new bottom, put a coat of paint on it and install a couple of new tires, it should be worth $3,000 or more. I'm very pleased. Of course, beggars can't be choosers, and I'd have accepted worse at the price.

 

[farmyid]

Found a used one in a rag called "the want advetiser" a weekly covering all New England. It appeared on a Tuesday, I bought it Wednesday and someone else had called him three times. The good stuff goes fast. Mark

 

[htiek126]

Do you have a trickle charger or a several amp battery charger for the charger you described that runs off your truck power?

 

[OkeeDon]

The truck-based "charger" I mentioned is just a connection from the truck's alternator charging circuit to the battery. It runs through a relay that is triggered by the ignition switch, so the truck is only supplying power to the trailer's battery when the truck is running. It runs through a standard 7-pin trailer wiring connector which has one pin for auxilliary power, and is the same type of connection used by those pulling camping trailers to recharge the trailer's battery.

I did some research on RV sites before wiring it up; most of them say it is only effective over several hours of pulling the trailer, and it only recharges their camper's battery to about 80% or so. The truck will likely never be hooked to the trailer that long; I just did it because I could. I have the same set up on my motor home, which is sometimes used to pull a race car trailer which has an auxilliary battery. I depend on the little automatic trickle charger running on an extension cord when the dump trailer is parked.

 

[ethicsg]

Have to agree with jsimon just added a new cylinder to a dump flat bed on a f450. When over loaded that breakover point pushing straight back bent two cross members that I attached the cylinder to. Just went and bought a scissor on CL for $100. Back to welding and looking for matching cylinder .

 

[LD1]

FWIW, this thread is 11 years old:confused2:

 

[Todd727]

FWIW, this thread is 11 years old:confused2:

Public schools? 2012-2003 = 9 (actually a little less since it was Dec '03 vs. Sep '12 :thumbsup:

But, nonetheless, quite a good job of using the search function for ethicsg

 

[KYDan]

I have seen them with two lift cylinders also.... but I would stay away from those.

What are you guys seeing for pricing of these trailers? I am in the market for a 10-12K unit myself to haul firewood. I see prices in Florida much cheaper (20-30%) than here in the northeast. I keep an eye out on Ebay, but that is really a sellers marketplace.... unless you are very lucky.

Why do you recommend staying away from dump trailers with two cylinders?