Dump Trucks

[Big Bri]

Another possibility would be to aim for even smaller jobs, with less equipment expense. Use something like a 1-ton flatbed dump and a dump trailer.

Bruce

You know i have a Ford f350 with a 12' flat bed that i thought about making a dump but i think you would have to charge as much for that little load as you would a larger load if you wanted to make money. I figure they both get about the same millage. I don't think a 1 ton truck can carry more than a yard may be a yard and a half.
But that's thinking out the box. . . Thanks

 

[Redbug]

Just throwing out another idea...why not get a dump trailer? Like a 14 footer? Then you don't have to worry about high taxes, etc.

Only bad thing is if you need to use a (dump), truck to move your tractor on a trailer.

 

[Builder]

Big Bri,
Here's my two cents for consideration. If this is what you want to do go for it. Just be persistent and be patient (and, of course, smart about how you go about it). The work is out there, you just gotta find it. Rarely will it find you. The more versatile you are, the greater your opportunities. It would serve you well to get a loader to complement the truck. I started with a F350 pickup, a little yanmar 2210D, and a dump trailer doing small jobs on the weekend and holidays. Now, I have a JD5403, tandem axle dump, and Case 450 loader. And, it is all side work. As I read the posts, I see that quite a few of the folks said that they parked or got rid of their dumptrucks and paid someone else to haul. Well, be the guy that does the hauling! After awhile, I hooked up with a guy who did tree work. He brought them down and I hauled away the brush and logs. When I moved to Northern, VA I started all over again. Small jobs on the weekend and holidays. Then I linked up with a landscaper pushing snow with my tractor and a buddy in the rollback business. He has a single axle rollback. I actually get charged less for my tandem axle dump than he does for his boxes. So, if he has a lot of heavy debris, I will haul it to the dump. Unless, you are going to haul strictly sand gravel and dirt, I would get an F750 (or equivalent for you non-Ford types) with a landscape body rather than a construction body. Gives you more versatility. Brush,mulch, and general debris doesn't weigh much but it fill you up quickly. And, you will come across a lot of brush and debris jobs in between sand, gravel, and dirt loads. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend anything larger more than a tandem or tri-axle dump. In addition to the dump trailer I pull behind my pickup, I have a '74 Diamond Reo with a 14' bed. I would prefer a 16' bed, but it was a good price. My mistake, I was over anxious and it was in lot worse shape than I originally thought. It runs and operates great, but there are a lot of little things nickle and diming me to get it right. There is no way to get around fuel. Insurance and how you tag it will be a big factor. I pay $275 a month with Progressive. And, I have non-apportioned tags. So, I can't run out of the state of VA with the dump truck. If you are nowhere near the state line, then it shouldn't be an issue for you. Again, network, be versatile, be persistent, and have a little patience! And, I think you will find that you can make it.
Hawk

I like your optimism, but sometimes it's better to get the work first, or at least some prospective customers before you sign on the dotted line for a lot of equipment. Or start off with some inexpensive equipment.

 

[Big Bri]

So i met with one of the local dirt pits this after noon. This particular pit only sells dirt and does not deliver. I asked a few questions about how much work was out there for a new driver, if the drivers were making money, and just for some general advise. I think i got straight answers but you never know. . . he may be just looking for someone else to buy dirt from him.
Anyway was basically told that their are a lot of drivers in the area, most of them only want to work for contractors, getting on large jobs or whole subdivisions. He also told me that that those drivers are doing quite well with some having multiple trucks on the road. I told him they type of truck i was looking at that i want to start with the home owner/ smaller jobs get my name out there and move from there.
He first told me that the truck i was looking at was way too small, and that i needed a larger truck, one that would handle 14yrds or more. He also told me that the reason most drivers don't like doing work for homeowners is that they only want half a load or a load, or they only want 1 load an hr so they can move it with their small tractors and that i would have a lot of idle time.
while i can see his point i think if i do this adventure these are the people i'd want to deliver to as no one wants to. I figure if i can get to two of these guys a day i can jump from one house to the other with out over loading the owner with too much dirt. I also think that word would spread fast about the guy that will deliver to the homeowner.
Maybe i'm naive, maybe i just want this to work, i think i'm back on the positive side of this for now. still going to do a little more research and listen to you pro's a little more before i decide.

The link is a photo/add of the type of truck and year i've been looking at.
Let me know what you think, to small too much trouble.
Thanks again
Brian
1998 FORD F SERIES for sale in Cocoa, Florida - EquipmentTraderOnline.com

 

[SLHawkins]

I like your optimism, but sometimes it's better to get the work first, or at least some prospective customers before you sign on the dotted line for a lot of equipment. Or start off with some inexpensive equipment.

Builder, you are correct. I did my market survey and knew the work was there. Nor, did I go out and get the equipment all at once. I have seen time and time again where folks grew too large and too fast. I started with a small tractor and gradually worked my way up a little at a time. Keep in mind, this is all secondary for me. I have a few more years to go until I retire. Then I hope to step out there full time, or at least be able to put more days/hours into doing what I like to do!

Hawk

 

[Builder]

Builder, you are correct. I did my market survey and knew the work was there. Nor, did I go out and get the equipment all at once. I have seen time and time again where folks grew too large and too fast. I started with a small tractor and gradually worked my way up a little at a time. Keep in mind, this is all secondary for me. I have a few more years to go until I retire. Then I hope to step out there full time, or at least be able to put more days/hours into doing what I like to do!

Hawk

There ya go! That's the best way to do it. Find out if there's potential demand for your product or service first. Nothing's worse than dropping big $$ on something only to see it sit around and rust.

This is my primary business. I could see if Big Bri is going into semi-retirement and has enough money that he can spend it expecting little gross profit in the beginning on his investment.
I'm feeding my family with this, so it's a bit more serious to me. Therefore, I may have a bigger dose of skepticism when someone proposes such a venture.

Bri, on a more specific note: If it were me, I'd buy an International with a DT466 or a Freightliner over a Ford. IH & Freightliner trucks in that size are available with a true medium duty cab for almost the same price. One thing I never liked about Ford is they cut costs by simply throwing a pickup cab onto an IH medium duty chassis. If it's an IH chassis, might as well just buy an IH, right? IH's are also available with the DT466, which is a more proven, reliable unit for a medium duty truck than the CAT 7.2 or Cummins 5.9L offered in the Ford.
I'd also look into a Freigthliner or a MACK, too. Ford sells few trucks compared to the true heavy truck builders and there's a reason for it. I had an F-700 and the comparison in the build and the cab to my IH is like night & day. I'm on like my 12th dumptruck so I can give you some solid advice here.
Probably the best thing to do is drop pre-conceived brand preference and just buy the best value you can find. That way you'll get a higher return on your investment.

If all you're planning on doing is delivering to homeowners, might be best to start with a F450/550 or a GM 4500/5500. Those are great trucks for homeowner deliveries and they can also pull your equipment around. Remember, you can always start small and get bigger by selling & buying bigger, but if you buy too big in the beginning, you might not have enough work for it.

 

[tlbuser]

One thing overlooked by many who don't own/operate a dump is convenience.
I have a lot of jobs stacked-up where a dumptruck is needed. Soon as I get a break off another job, I'll grab the dump and start running modified, wood chips, whatever my customer or my own jobsite needs on pretty short notice.

That's the only thing a for-hire guy usually can't do for you: is be there on a very short notice. If you're doing septic systems, it's probably easy to shcedule ahead to have equipment moved to next customer. My business has a lot of short notice dump truck needs. That's why I own one or 2 dumps.

I wasn't trying to dissuade, just what works for us. Right now, if I'm within 25 miles of the pit, on a unscheduled load, the pit charges a $55.00 delivery fee. Haul offs and multiple loads per day, I can usually get a little better rate. Last time I used site trucks, we paid $40.00 per hour per truck.

 

[EddieWalker]

Maybe i'm naive, maybe i just want this to work, i think i'm back on the positive side of this for now. still going to do a little more research and listen to you pro's a little more before i decide.

I feel that if you do a good job, reply to phone calls, treat your customers right and do what you say you will, any business will succeed. The question is how long will it take to build up your reputation and if there is a market for what youw want to do in your area?

I have an 83 F600 gas dump truck for moving dirt around on my land. I hate it. It is the vehicle that I'm always working on and always fighting. The bed needs to be redone becuase wet clay will stick to it. The breaks are a nightmare. It only moves 5yards at a time, and that's nothing.

I remodel homes and have built a few houses. Getting dirt is pretty simple in my area. I just call the local guy and he brings it out to where I want it. I don't care too much what it costs because the homeowner pays it as part of the materials to do the job. If I need a pad built up, there are guys who specialize in that and will show up with a ten yard dump truck, skid steers, small dozer and roller to compact the soil. They do a pad a day, and they are very good at it.

My fear is that if you are dealing with homeowners, you will find that they are clueless about what they need, what it costs to get it done and what they expect to pay for it to be done. Most will waste your time with calling you out to look at their yard or low area, get a price, then talk bad about you for wanting too much money. Its what I hear all the time from clients who have hired guys to haul and spread dirt for them. I try to explain how expensive it is to haul dirt, but they rarely get it.

I think Builder is dead on with how expensive it is to do, and how easy it is to lose money at it. I also think that marketing your business, getting jobs, meeting potential clients and espesially maintenance on your truck will eat up more time then you ever imagine it will. All that time has to be built into what you charge to haul dirt, and if you are only hauling small amounts, you will have to charge more per yard then the bigger trucks to make it worth your while.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Big Bri]

There ya go! That's the best way to do it. Find out if there's potential demand for your product or service first. Nothing's worse than dropping big $$ on something only to see it sit around and rust.

This is my primary business. I could see if Big Bri is going into semi-retirement and has enough money that he can spend it expecting little gross profit in the beginning on his investment.
I'm feeding my family with this, so it's a bit more serious to me. Therefore, I may have a bigger dose of skepticism when someone proposes such a venture.

Bri, on a more specific note: If it were me, I'd buy an International with a DT466 or a Freightliner over a Ford. IH & Freightliner trucks in that size are available with a true medium duty cab for almost the same price. One thing I never liked about Ford is they cut costs by simply throwing a pickup cab onto an IH medium duty chassis. If it's an IH chassis, might as well just buy an IH, right? IH's are also available with the DT466, which is a more proven, reliable unit for a medium duty truck than the CAT 7.2 or Cummins 5.9L offered in the Ford.
I'd also look into a Freigthliner or a MACK, too. Ford sells few trucks compared to the true heavy truck builders and there's a reason for it. I had an F-700 and the comparison in the build and the cab to my IH is like night & day. I'm on like my 12th dumptruck so I can give you some solid advice here.
Probably the best thing to do is drop pre-conceived brand preference and just buy the best value you can find. That way you'll get a higher return on your investment.

If all you're planning on doing is delivering to homeowners, might be best to start with a F450/550 or a GM 4500/5500. Those are great trucks for homeowner deliveries and they can also pull your equipment around. Remember, you can always start small and get bigger by selling & buying bigger, but if you buy too big in the beginning, you might not have enough work for it.

Thanks for the info on the trucks. . . don't know a lot about them as far as what will last for the long hall. There is a heavy commercial diesel shop down the road from me that works on all types of trucks. I've talked to them and for $150 they will check the truck over, look at all the suspension breaks axle run the codes on the computer to verify hrs an miles. They also check the wheel barrings air breaks and would check any hydraulics. I feel that this is Cheep insurance to keep me from buying crap.

 

[Builder]

Thanks for the info on the trucks. . . don't know a lot about them as far as what will last for the long hall. There is a heavy commercial diesel shop down the road from me that works on all types of trucks. I've talked to them and for $150 they will check the truck over, look at all the suspension breaks axle run the codes on the computer to verify hrs an miles. They also check the wheel barrings air breaks and would check any hydraulics. I feel that this is Cheep insurance to keep me from buying crap.

I would suggest a non-electronic diesel if you feel strongly enough to go through with buying a bigger truck to start. They are super reliable and easy to fix. Most pre-'94 stuff is non-E. This '92 DT466 I have just runs & runs without any issues. I would avoid the 5.9L. It's great for a Dodge pickup, but lacks the rotating mass of a 7L-8L mill and you'll feel it going up hills. Although it's MD rated and I love it in a smaller truck, it's just not enough displacement for a big load in a dump truck.
Good idea having a truck shop go through your prospective purchase. I would look for an older, simpler prefferably air-braked 26K or less (no cdl) truck that's affordable and build the business off that truck.

Really one of the best S/A trucks for hauling dirt, pulling a backhoe is an older Mack, but parts are starting to get tough. Ever since Renault "Europeanized" them, they really haven't been the same old Mack tough. The older Macks were the toughest trucks ever built for working in the dirt.
What a sad story Mack is. I live 40 miles from the old mack plant in Alllentown, PA.

 

[TonyF]

...
The link is a photo/add of the type of truck and year i've been looking at.
Let me know what you think, to small too much trouble.
Thanks again
Brian
1998 FORD F SERIES for sale in Cocoa, Florida - EquipmentTraderOnline.com

That's my truck, but I have the 429 gasser and Allison AT545. As Builder mentioned about the cab, not sure what the cab is, but its plenty large enough. If that truck were available when I bought mine, I would have strongly considered it. It will have the Lucas Girling brakes. The box has a telescoping ram vice the scissors lift, which in my opinion is much better, but the doghouse takes up some space in the box -- The box is made by Tebco in Ky I believe.

Mine is yellow, I was wondering how it would look white or black

 

[dodge man]

Well, I can tell you what happens in my area. Most of the truckers are pretty serious, its a business for them. They are all running at least tandem axles, and a lot of them semis with a larger dump trailer. They are usually hauling for construction companys, hauling rock, ashpalt, dirt, etc to large construction projects, such as highways, large building sites, etc. You probably won't get these guys to haul a load of anything to your house unless they are really slow.

There are also a couple of guys in my area that will haul for the homeowner type person. They will haul gravel and dirt. One of them even has a stockpile of topsoil he gets from various construction sites. They are using single axle trucks. One of them is a farmer and hauls the dirt on the side. I would add that the add for the Ford truck you posted would be the minumum size I would start with.

 

[Redbug]

That sounds like it could be a good nitch type of market...others are too busy with bigger jobs and larger equipment...

 

[scoutcub]

Big Bri -

I've been following your thread with great interest. First of all, I admire you're enthusiasm about getting out of the rat race and starting something new that you might actually enjoy!
One question that sticks out in my mind....you said you're selling your business.....so would this new job be a needed primary source of income, or just a side business that you hope to make money at, but aren't strapped if you don't? Big difference between the two.
I'm actually in a similar situation. I work overseas, and would LOVE to quit and work for myself at home. I love operating equipment and own outright several pieces of equipment, with a 1 ton PU and the trailer to haul everything. (except the 2 big ones) I'm gunshy at this point but not ruling it out down the road when I'm in a more financially capable status. (able to lose $$$...:laughing And, I've got a pit about 3 miles from my house....
Back to the dump truck. I recently bought and sold a 1 ton dump for a big dirt project that's been completed. I shopped around quite a bit, and was going back and forth between a 5-ton type rig, (just under CDL, like the ford you're looking at) or a 1 ton+ with 4wd. I ended up with a F350 460 gasser. Now you would think with a monster gas engine it would pull OK......not. With a decent load, it was a dog. One older IH dump with the small diesel was also a dog on the test drive, and that was empty! Point being, I have to agree with builder that the 5.9 motor, albeit a good motor, might be struggling with a good load, particularly if you have hills. One truck I looked at was a ford with the bigger CAT, and the seller offered to take it for a test drive to the pit and load/drive it with a full load of gravel.....which was a great idea, but he was asking way to much $$$$. My next dump, will probably be an IH with the DT466. I would seriously consider a F550 w/10' bed 4wd with a 7.3 motor, (4wd giving you more accessibility) but the prices for these rigs is prohibitive.
Definitely have the mechanic go over it, I've done this several times with equipment and it can be a lifesaver.
Best of luck, and looking forward to seeing which way this goes....!

 

[Builder]

There's a reason IH sells more medium duty trucks than anyone else.
There's also a reason the DT466 has been in service for over 30 years.

Like I said, don't pass up a good deal on another brand IF it's a really good deal. See if you can find an airbraked truck with 26K GVWR or less. The service and reliability of the brakes puts you way ahead of juice brakes.

I too like BigBri's enthusiam. I went to work last week thinking how lucky I was to be able to do something I feel God made/wanted me to do. It feels "natural" for me to be running a backhoe/excavator, driving a dumptruck, mowing big fields, building a big garage, etc. I really wish it paid more, though.

 

[Big Bri]

One question that sticks out in my mind....you said you're selling your business.....so would this new job be a needed primary source of income, or just a side business that you hope to make money at, but aren't strapped if you don't? Big difference between the two.

I will be living off my rental property, so this is more for extra income and to give me something to do. I'm way too young to just sit around the house.
I would like to grow it into something big but if it doesn't work out i'd still have a dump truck.
Basically in a nut shell, after all expensives paid i'd like to net about 2k a month after the first year. This would just be "mad money" for taking trips with the wife and kids and to buy more toys for my tractor/and tools for the shed.
The main reason for hauling dirt was that i figured that if i wanted to take a week or two and do some traveling i could pay a friend to run the truck while i'm gone or just refer the jobs to another driver. I don't want to get back to 60hr a week job (that what i do now at a min.) I've only had one vacation in the last 6 years and i am ready to slow down and not be so stressed out.

I am lucky in the fact that i have paid off my debt fast and lived well under my means for the last 10 years. My house, rental property, and business are all paid for and the only thing i own money on is my truck (could pay that off if i wanted but the interest rate is so low i don't feel the need) and my kids school, 8k a year for one and the other will be going to the same school in 2 years.

I'm still not sold on the whole dirt hauling idea but i am giving it a lot of thought.
Brian

 

[Builder]

I mean, if it's just a passion you have and it doesn't need to show a profit, then go for it.
I don't want to be one to tell a man not to pursue a passion, just keeping it real in terms of what to expect.

 

[capt_met]

I am in a similar situation as yourself, maybe 4-5 years ahead of you. I have a job that keeps me away from home and a few years ago i quit to go into the dirt biz. I have learned that nothing is how I thought it would be. what seemed very simple on paper never seemed to be how it worked out. 5 years later I do have 2 dump trucks ( old chevy C65 gasser/ chevy 4500 4x4) a backhoe mini track loader and an excavator. I have also returned to my previous job to help support the habit. My backhoe biz is doing the best it has since starting. it has been a very slow process that i don't think will be ready for me to go full time with for 3 more years.
Listen very closely to what Builder is saying. He is dead on in all the advice he is giving. I will add that for the loads you are wanting to haul to look at the isuzu cabover dumps. great manuverability in tight driveways. You have yet to mention where you are from. this is important due to the little real estate/building slowdown the country is going through. without other niche services i don't believe you will stay busy enough to justify your expenses for this.

 

[tlbuser]

Why not give it a whirl? Sounds like all you have to lose is....nothing. Finding something to occupy time, earn money and have fun at is something most people will never do.

 

[Builder]

I am in a similar situation as yourself, maybe 4-5 years ahead of you. I have a job that keeps me away from home and a few years ago i quit to go into the dirt biz. I have learned that nothing is how I thought it would be. what seemed very simple on paper never seemed to be how it worked out. 5 years later I do have 2 dump trucks ( old chevy C65 gasser/ chevy 4500 4x4) a backhoe mini track loader and an excavator. I have also returned to my previous job to help support the habit. My backhoe biz is doing the best it has since starting. it has been a very slow process that i don't think will be ready for me to go full time with for 3 more years.
Listen very closely to what Builder is saying. He is dead on in all the advice he is giving. I will add that for the loads you are wanting to haul to look at the isuzu cabover dumps. great manuverability in tight driveways. You have yet to mention where you are from. this is important due to the little real estate/building slowdown the country is going through. without other niche services i don't believe you will stay busy enough to justify your expenses for this.

Great advice. It just dawned on me that Big Bri lives on pretty much flat land, so big power is just a waste. Although lower on power than domestic trucks, the Asian cab overs are insanely cheap & reliable to own/operate. I have grown to appreciate these trucks and love the influence they had on the GM 4500/5500 truck designs. Yes, great visibility as Capt Met said. Great suggestion! :thumbsup:

Jealous of the 4500 4x4 Capt Met!!!! Probably the best light/medium contractor's truck ever built.DMAX/Ally/4x4/tight turn radius/heavy built. :thumbsup: Puts the competiton to shame. I want one.