E/85 Flex Fuel The Documentary called Pump...

[AxleHub]

In my area, there is one working E85 pump left (east bound on the MA turnpike at the Sturbridge rest area) that I know of. As of Saturday it was $0.04 per gallon more expensive that regular gas.

I'm not going to comment on the banter back and forth, but a statement was mentioned that I must comment on: Oil & gas are renewable. Sorry, this is false. Old non-productive wells may be productive again, but that is because the easily recoverable oil/gas flows quickly, and remaining pockets will eventually fill those voids. It still remains a finite resource.

Greetings Crashz,

The person who made the statement that oil and gas are renewable . . . is me. And that statement is quite accurate. while new technology allows explorers to get additional oil from existing wells . . that would be enhanced extraction . . not renewable.

But human intelligence is always limited by human ego and assumption that "turn" into supposed facts.

Oil and gas are renewable in several methods and instances . . .but until a few years ago we didn't know it so they were classed as finite. This is very similar to how we thought shale oil was too expensive and limited to extract. Then we found the Dakotas had maybe about 0.5 billion potential barrels . . Then 1.5 . . then 4.0 then 8.0 then ????? billion more.

A. Coal is formed from ever renewable created peat bogs. From coal it becomes coal oil and then eventually oil.

B. Methane comes from bacteria produced deteriorated living things. From Methane it ages to natural gas and coal. And from natural gas it can oil also.

6 or 7 years ago we didn't even know "green oil" even existed. But thanks to new exploration techology we've been humbled yet again to find out that oil known and discovered by Rockefella and produced from "the old Joe" or OPEC etc. is not the top grade. Green oil is literally green and stuffed with renewables that are longer developing than normal oils and chocked full of greater energy and quality.

We've now found that not only are natural gas and oil and coal and peat and methane eventually interchsngeable but they all reproduce from the plant based refisr of dead animals, trees and leaves etc. etc.. And in just the last few years we've learned that what we thougjt was only 2 to 15 feet deep is actually a 100 to 200 feet deep in whole different ateas than we knew.

Its a circle that starts with co2 and sunshine and grows trees and plants that feed bugs/animals/people that all breakdown to co2 and deteriorated material that in turn creates trees and plants.

 

[crashz]

Well - you are right, but again, timescale is a factor in the "renewable" factor behind oil. How many generations would it take to produce oil from peat? Diamonds also come from coal, but I won't expect to see them in my compost pile.

In full disclosure, I've never heard of green oil. I do remember a Tyson project a few years ago where they processed chicken waste into a crude oil, but it was very vague in the process description. It sounded like they used the waste, water, a mixer and applied heat to make the oil. Sounded more like chicken stock to me, but I'm sure they wouldn't publish a new technology before the patent was locked in. Is green oil similar? Is it a bacteria that secretes oil in its digestion?

 

[AxleHub]

Well - you are right, but again, timescale is a factor in the "renewable" factor behind oil. How many generations would it take to produce oil from peat? Diamonds also come from coal, but I won't expect to see them in my compost pile.

In full disclosure, I've never heard of green oil. I do remember a Tyson project a few years ago where they processed chicken waste into a crude oil, but it was very vague in the process description. It sounded like they used the waste, water, a mixer and applied heat to make the oil. Sounded more like chicken stock to me, but I'm sure they wouldn't publish a new technology before the patent was locked in. Is green oil similar? Is it a bacteria that secretes oil in its digestion?

Greetings crashz,

Green oil is not called green because it is renewable . . it is actually green in color and has a very high quality content. It is a considerably higher level than is black oil. As an example . . there are lower quality oils as far as thickness etc.. . They could potentially be mixed with a green oil to move the quality up toward a light sweet crude.

Also as another but different example . . . Dakota shale oils shipped by train are more volatile than are other regions oil because they have higher gas and richness contents to them in general . . and that all factors into the btu ratio per gallon or refinery processing needs per btu

Also when consudering timeframes about renewables . . remember that all those decades while our assumptions were way off base on oil and gas being only finite and in much smaller quantities than they actually are . . that natural renewal has been going on too without us seeing it . . so its not like planting a "tree twig and waiting 20 years for shade". That renewing processes has never stopped.

Our proven and unproven reserves of gases and oils is right now enough be the game changer. That is why since june of 2014 OPEC has and IS trying so hard to drive our u.s. based oil and gas explorers into bankruptcy. There effort didn't start 5 years ago . . It directly started June 2014 and came on very suddenly because they could see just how fast our technology and production was developing. DESPERATION is their motivation . . and they are having huge cash flow problens because of it . . . because they never dreamed our technology would continue to get cheaper drilling/production AFTER they staryed their efforts. They figured many of the playets would already be gone and they could raise prices. OPEC didn't have money . . they had good cash flow and big spending habits. Now they have the same habits and weak cash flow.

 

[AxleHub]

Crashz,

Just one other quick example of how "fast" oil is renewable.

Corn oil, olive oil, vegetable oil, kanola oil, coconut oil etc. etc. etc. can all be developed in a year or less then be used in cooking and then filtered to be used in vehicles.

 

[Redneck in training]

Greetings Crashz,

The person who made the statement that oil and gas are renewable . . . is me. And that statement is quite accurate. while new technology allows explorers to get additional oil from existing wells . . that would be enhanced extraction . . not renewable.

But human intelligence is always limited by human ego and assumption that "turn" into supposed facts.

Oil and gas are renewable in several methods and instances . . .but until a few years ago we didn't know it so they were classed as finite. This is very similar to how we thought shale oil was too expensive and limited to extract. Then we found the Dakotas had maybe about 0.5 billion potential barrels . . Then 1.5 . . then 4.0 then 8.0 then ????? billion more.

A. Coal is formed from ever renewable created peat bogs. From coal it becomes coal oil and then eventually oil.

B. Methane comes from bacteria produced deteriorated living things. From Methane it ages to natural gas and coal. And from natural gas it can oil also.

6 or 7 years ago we didn't even know "green oil" even existed. But thanks to new exploration techology we've been humbled yet again to find out that oil known and discovered by Rockefella and produced from "the old Joe" or OPEC etc. is not the top grade. Green oil is literally green and stuffed with renewables that are longer developing than normal oils and chocked full of greater energy and quality.

We've now found that not only are natural gas and oil and coal and peat and methane eventually interchsngeable but they all reproduce from the plant based refisr of dead animals, trees and leaves etc. etc.. And in just the last few years we've learned that what we thougjt was only 2 to 15 feet deep is actually a 100 to 200 feet deep in whole different ateas than we knew.

Its a circle that starts with co2 and sunshine and grows trees and plants that feed bugs/animals/people that all breakdown to co2 and deteriorated material that in turn creates trees and plants.

Keep dreaming. To turn biomass to coal, oil and gas it has to be exposed to high pressure (in example buried very deep) and it is slow process. Most biomass decomposes on the surface and either CO2 or Methane is released to atmosphere.
Shale wells have short production life. To keep the gas production up you need to drill new wells. That makes it expensive. The next source of methane could be hydrate on the bottom of the sea if somebody comes up with safe way to get it. There is lot of research going on in that area and I have seen study of a gas plant on the sea bottom. If a deep sea oil production platform cost about 2 billion to put in place then you can imagine the cost of such equipment under water will cost many times more.

 

[Redneck in training]

Crashz,

Just one other quick example of how "fast" oil is renewable.

Corn oil, olive oil, vegetable oil, kanola oil, coconut oil etc. etc. etc. can all be developed in a year or less then be used in cooking and then filtered to be used in vehicles.

The most productive oil producing plant is Oil palm. It produces several times more oil per acre than in example soy. But there is a cost. If you fly over Borneo from Miri to Kuching (about 320 miles) you will see the jungle gone replaced by oil palm plantations. It was sold to local people as development but none of them got rich or at least better. It is environmental disaster. The same companies want to do the same thing in South America now.

 

[Redneck in training]

I won't re-hash a few other threads, but ethanol is used in gas as a replacement to MBTE. Please do yourself the favor of looking up that horror show.

Isn't it true that metanol was added to gasoline not only as octane enhancer but also as oxidizer. E85 should produce less smog. That is why, in places prone to smog, you can't get regular gas.

 

[crashz]

RIT - that's correct. MBTE was used initially before that however due to significant groundwater contamination, ethanol was used as a replacement.

 

[crashz]

Crashz,

Just one other quick example of how "fast" oil is renewable.

Corn oil, olive oil, vegetable oil, kanola oil, coconut oil etc. etc. etc. can all be developed in a year or less then be used in cooking and then filtered to be used in vehicles.

I've always been a fan of using these oils as a biodiesel (tried it in my old 6.2L diesel!) so I can see where you are going with that. Still interested in the green oil. Google searches only come up with recycled oil and oils marketed as green, but I think they are simple vegetable oils. Veggie oil has been used as AW10 hydraulic for many years for contractors working in wet conditions (rivers, wetlands, lakes, etc.) so that if a hose burst, the released oil would be far less toxic than conventional. Early versions were not good, but I think they've come a long way.

I'll be the first to admit, when someone says "oil", I think big oil companies, not veggie based.

 

[AxleHub]

I've always been a fan of using these oils as a biodiesel (tried it in my old 6.2L diesel!) so I can see where you are going with that. Still interested in the green oil. Google searches only come up with recycled oil and oils marketed as green, but I think they are simple vegetable oils. Veggie oil has been used as AW10 hydraulic for many years for contractors working in wet conditions (rivers, wetlands, lakes, etc.) so that if a hose burst, the released oil would be far less toxic than conventional. Early versions were not good, but I think they've come a long way.

I'll be the first to admit, when someone says "oil", I think big oil companies, not veggie based.

Greetings crashz,

"Green oil" is not part of renewable vegetable oils. It is an exceptionally rich petroleum oil product that naturally is colored green and is found deep in the Dakota shales. Like so many of the technology changes that have developed in the shales in just the last year or two . . we didn't know green oil even existed a few years go. Once again our human egos failed us as we just are not nearly as smart as we try to make ourselves out to be

And as I've stated numerous times on this thread and others . . the general impression of who and what exploration companies are is quite in error.

All of the major advances we've seen in oil and gas exploration in the domestic U.S. for many years develop and come from "small oil", certainly not from what people consider "big oil". The Exxons and phillips and marathons etc.. own refineries and off shore sites in many parts of the world. They might have bought a smaller explorer here and there from a "small oil operator" . . but the players that are saving our butts from the clutches of OPEC are once very small intelligent companies designing and creating new ideas and methods that have been high risk and brilliant. Names like Continental Resources and Kodiak and Whiting risked everything in the 2002 timeframe when no one else would even consider it . . to gradually test snd invent the technology science we uderstand today. No roads, no pipelines miserable weather and little money and American ingenuity has scared heck out of OPEC in just a dozen years. There are a dozen more small company names to include but the 3 listed were the first. But NONE of the 12 or 15 names was a big and well monied company . . not one. None of them got subsidies and Federal help. Thats been the history pattern for decades and decades.