eBay/Craigslist ebay item

mark777 · Jun 22, 2005

Bob,

Thank you for your detailed response, and the thought and time in composing it. It does answer many (most) of my questions.

I believe you to be in the minority of dealers who's QA and repair/replace procedures put out a decent product. You do have a tough road ahead as the general consensus of reconditioned tractors is dictated by the majority that "just puts it together enough to make it run with a shiny new paint job". And Bob, the market is saturated with these tractors...and has been the last few years.

My personal observation has been that the most reconditioned dealers capitalizes on the strength, popularity and longevity of the Japanese tractor industry, buy the absolute maximum units for the cheapest amount, do the minimum to make them presentable and dump them on first time buyers and walk ins.

I know that consumers are either ignorant, have a low budget or motivated by greed and will buy the cheapest item they can...and those dealers are readily available to take their money, make promises concerning support and parts availability...and often renig.

I am excluding you from my observations.

There were two dealers in my immediate area that imported reconditioned tractors. One is out of business as I mentioned in my earlier post and the other, a family owned Farm Trac and Montana dealer, experimented with a few containers from Vietnam. He employees two good mechanics and a shop well equipped and was ready to tackle any and all problems. I talked with him last Wednesday, mostly why he dropped the line of imports, and he did not bash or blame anyone. He just offered a simple analogy: "If you buy a can of bad tuna, you have two choices, Switch brands or never eat tuna again".

IMHO: They are all used tractors regardless of the physical or mechanical condition, and you have to segregate good dealers from bad. I think many dealers (and some on TBN) will not jepordize their reputation by risking the sale of a reconditioned tractor vs. a used one. The systemic effect of one bad tractor, one unhappy customer and the damaging word of mouth can break an honest dealer in a very short time.

I also know that all tractors (new, used or recoditioned) will have a problem from time to time. And your approach to QA is highly commendable. I truly hope you do well and overcome the poor reputation associated with recons.

On a last note, I have a real problem with hour meters re-set or replaced to indicate low or "0" hours. The hours indicate the true history of the tractor, and any tampering or replacement, regarless of the reasons, leave me with that uneasy feeling that an individual or company is attempting to disquise something that it is not. No one can hold you accountable as it's out of your hands.

Good luck and regards, Mark

mark777 · Jun 22, 2005

Keith,

I apologize as I jumped to the conclusion that the tractor description (for the advertisement) was a tractor you purchased. I did not realize it indicated the title of loaderbobs ad.

Mark

LMTC · Jun 22, 2005

( The hours indicate the true history of the tractor, and any tampering or replacement, regarless of the reasons, leave me with that uneasy feeling that an individual or company is attempting to disquise something that it is not. No one can hold you accountable as it's out of your hands.
)
Mark,
As usual, a clear & concise post. I concur that intentionally resetting hour meters is wrong, and clearly not the common practice in this country after a rebuild on virtually anything. I do have to disagree with you though when you say "it's out of your hands". I would maintain that it is not out of the selling dealer's hands---the selling dealer can choose NOT to carry such merchandise, thus acknowledging that zeroing hour meters is a deceptive practice.

loaderbob · Jun 22, 2005

Mark,
Thanks for the response. It only takes a few hours on these forums to figure out that I am probably the only recon dealer that participates. I still stand behind my product. I will also continue to buy recons and add in some used next year to meet price points. I will have a better appreciation for the #1s after a year of QAing them.

I have had problems, though mostly minor annoying stuff, but it is how I have dealt with them that makes the difference. Replacing a gas tank instead of patching it. I fedex parts to my customers overnight(even in rural areas), expedite parts during warranty from Japan instead of waiting 4-6 weeks, and bascially cover everything under the warranty unless they light the tractor on fire, even if I cannot get reimbursed from the wholesaler. The customer comes 1st, I will continue to provide amazing support to my customers, especially those who are geographically further away.

On the hours meters, I am going to follow up with the factory reps. I am not sure if I can change anything but your point is well taken. I have not had anyone raise it as an issue so far, until I read some of the forums.

I find however most of my clients are well educated and a bunch come from the IT sector. They ask good questions but most of the time they buy because of a referral story where their friend loves the tractor, it runs great, and I sent their friend parts overnight so thay could use their tractors on the weekend.

I am sure this thread will raise alot of flags, but at least now I should get less PMs with the same questions. I plan on continuing to participate in the forums and appreciate your support.

Best Regards,
Bob

loaderbob · Jun 22, 2005

LMTC,
I have not built my dealership on deception. I am also not going to change my business just to join the club. I like the uinits I sell and have seen both good and bad recon and used tractors.

I will raise this issue as promsied.

Best Regards,
Bob

Tractors4u · Jun 22, 2005

( I will also continue to buy recons and add in some used next year to meet price points. )

It just seems odd to refer to the recons as not used. They are a used tractor also.

( On the hours meters, I am going to follow up with the factory reps. )

This is the one that has bothered me since I first heard of the Vietnam refurbs. They call them factory reconditioned. It leads people to believe that these tractors were reconditioned by the manufacturer. I have seen Dewalt tools at the outlet stores that claim to be "factory reconditioned". I naturally assume that they were done at the Dewalt factory or at least a Dewalt facility. When people hear "factory" they think of the original manufacturer. I am not picking on you here Bob. Your not the first one I have heard use this term. Are these factories some how linked to Yanmar?

thegreatrandini · Jun 22, 2005

U know these hr meters only go up to 1000 hrs!! U r going to tell me if u have a 20 yr old tractor with 500 hrs on the meter that u know something about that tractor?????? Am I missing something?
My recon has been a good unit so far....I have seen non recons that I would want and several that I would only want if they were reconditioned first.....
I chose mine over new Jinma......I would rather have a new Deere etc.. but can't justify the expense. I could hire the tractoring done for 50+ years for what a new Deere etc... cost.....I hope my tractor proves to be a good unit in the long run.......

LMTC · Jun 22, 2005

( Am I missing something?) Yes. In fact, many models have four digit hour meters. And there are a variety of things an experienced individual can look for that will give a good indication whether that 500 on a three digit meter is really 500 or 2500.

mark777 · Jun 22, 2005

Great,

If I go back to the original post and carefully read the buyers disappointments and the way in which he choose to communicate to the tens of thousands of viewers about that company, then I believe that dealer has committed business suicide. Many came to the defense of Fredericks who was only slightly, but falsely implicated...(he is on my short list of very good dealers).

How can it be construed as anything but deceptive? By installing the driveline tubes, boot and clamp, but forgetting the cups, ball bearings, cotter key, spring and washers AND drive-shaft, constitutes blatant misrepresentation. It should be illegal and punishable with heavy fines and threat of imprisonment......(that dealer is on my long list of bad guys)

This is what loaderbob is up against. And what he will have to overcome by distancing himself from the many other recon dealers.

LMTC is correct. 3 OR 4 digit hour meters along with key areas that show significant amounts of ware reflect the condition of the tractor.

Mark

cfoxmd · Jun 22, 2005

Mark,

Business suicicide will only happen when he runs out of unsuspecting buyers who don't bother to be informed. Evenutally he will have such a bad reputation that it will happen, but there are lots of people out there who are so enamored of getting something for nothing, or a great deal that they suspend any judgement whatsoever. Ebay is great for luring in the unsuspecting. Go to an real auto auction sometime, its fun to watch the retail buyers bid, pay wholesale or more, then find something wrong with the car while still on the lot.