Educate me on battery choices

[JJZ 109]

I've got a Telsta A28D bucket on a 2001 Ford F450. The hydraulics are powered by one big battery. I've crossed the current battery to a NAPA 7271 FT, a 1425 (@ 0 degrees F) CCA battery. 440 minute reserve capacity. This would appear to me to be a starting battery for commercial applications.
Would I be better off to look for some type of deep cycle for this application? Something similar to this? MK Battery | 12 Volt 200 AH Deep Cycle AGM RV & Marine Battery or this? http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...y-Marine-RV-Deep-Cycle/_/R-NBE8276_0353642380
For the money that these things cost, I'd rather not experiment and would like to get it right the first time. Current battery tested OK last fall and was on a trickle charge all winter, but it almost left me in the air yesterday without really a lot of use time on it.
I checked my Telsta service and parts manual over but no mention of battery size or type for these units is mentioned. If anyone with electrical knowledge of these types of applications could help me out I'd appreciate it.

 

[Garandman]

We try to buy Odyssey [AGM] batteries for our toughest applications. Odyssey is also sold as Sears Diehard Platinum.

Heavy Duty/Commercial Specifications ? ODYSSEY battery

 

[oosik]

I have a group 31 Odyssey battery with 1200 CCA in my tractor. It always has sufficient power to go the distance and has never let me down.

 

[ModMech]

There are three common battery chemistries, each takes a UNIQUE charging profile, since almost all engines are supplied with alternators designed for wet lead-acid batteries, you will get the best life from a quality battery of that type, period.

Now, the question is what is a "quality" wet lead-acid battery? That's opening Pandora's box....

In the US, there are essentially three battery manufacturers: 1) Johnson Controls (most OEMs), 2) Exide (most aftermarket and private label) and 3) Deka (East Penn, mostly their own label).

Of those three, based on 25 years of maintaining large fleets, I would go Deka or Johnson Controls (Interstate label).

HOWEVER, you stated that this battery "powers" the bucket functions on your truck, if that is true and you are not using the battery for starting all of the above are completely irrelevant because you NEED a "Deep-Cycle" battery and NOT and "SLA" (Starting, Lighting, Accessory) type as found in most vehicles. In the case of deep-cycle, get a 12V Trojan Gp 31 (or two) and be DONE with it.

Btw, there is no such thing as a "combination starting/deep cycle" battery, that's like saying you have a combination gas/diesel engine and it works well on both fuels..... NOT.

 

[Garandman]

Btw, there is no such thing as a "combination starting/deep cycle" battery, that's like saying you have a combination gas/diesel engine and it works well on both fuels..... NOT.

True enough, but AGM batteries, developed for aircraft use, will typically last many more charge cycles than a flooded lead acid battery, especially if there are extended loads on it, like kids opening and closing the doors of a minivan while watching movies and charging their phones: which is why we now have a $200 AGM....

 

[JJZ 109]

There are three common battery chemistries, each takes a UNIQUE charging profile, since almost all engines are supplied with alternators designed for wet lead-acid batteries, you will get the best life from a quality battery of that type, period.

Now, the question is what is a "quality" wet lead-acid battery? That's opening Pandora's box....

In the US, there are essentially three battery manufacturers: 1) Johnson Controls (most OEMs), 2) Exide (most aftermarket and private label) and 3) Deka (East Penn, mostly their own label).

Of those three, based on 25 years of maintaining large fleets, I would go Deka or Johnson Controls (Interstate label).

HOWEVER, you stated that this battery "powers" the bucket functions on your truck, if that is true and you are not using the battery for starting all of the above are completely irrelevant because you NEED a "Deep-Cycle" battery and NOT and "SLA" (Starting, Lighting, Accessory) type as found in most vehicles. In the case of deep-cycle, get a 12V Trojan Gp 31 (or two) and be DONE with it.

Btw, there is no such thing as a "combination starting/deep cycle" battery, that's like saying you have a combination gas/diesel engine and it works well on both fuels..... NOT.

This is a separate battery that powers the lift. The V10 in the truck has it's own battery. There's a switch in the cab to activate power to the lift. The way it's been explained to me, when that switch is on, the lift battery powers the lift and is isolated from the rest of the charging system so that the truck battery doesn't get sapped. When the lift switch is off, the truck alternator charges that battery.
I'm kind of leaning toward the NAPA deep cycle (I believe Deka makes their batteries) in my earlier link, but the listing doesn't show amp hours.

 

[ModMech]

AFAIK, all NAPA batteries are Exide and I'm not a fan.

You need about 220 A-Hr of capacity and what you describe makes total sense.

BTW, ANY battery that advertises a "CCA" rating, IS NOT a "deep cycle" battery.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I've got a Telsta A28D bucket on a 2001 Ford F450. The hydraulics are powered by one big battery. I've crossed the current battery to a NAPA 7271 FT, a 1425 (@ 0 degrees F) CCA battery. 440 minute reserve capacity. This would appear to me to be a starting battery for commercial applications.

For the money that these things cost, I'd rather not experiment and would like to get it right the first time. Current battery tested OK last fall and was on a trickle charge all winter, but it almost left me in the air yesterday without really a lot of use time on it.
I checked my Telsta service and parts manual over but no mention of battery size or type for these units is mentioned. If anyone with electrical knowledge of these types of applications could help me out I'd appreciate it.

This is a separate battery that powers the lift. The V10 in the truck has it's own battery. There's a switch in the cab to activate power to the lift. The way it's been explained to me, when that switch is on, the lift battery powers the lift and is isolated from the rest of the charging system so that the truck battery doesn't get sapped. When the lift switch is off, the truck alternator charges that battery.
I'm kind of leaning toward the NAPA deep cycle (I believe Deka makes their batteries) in my earlier link, but the listing doesn't show amp hours.

What kind of trickle charger? If it wasnt the type that monitors charge like a "Battery Tender" it probably fried that battery over the winter.

Also, you will want to look into how your truck charges the aux batt. If it just puts it across your truck battery in parallel there is no guarantee it is charging correctly. ... A new batt will suffer some but accommodate the issue. As the batt declines [prematurely] the charge quality will suffer increasingly.

Your best bet is to use the aux batt as youve stated, but equip it with some extra leads that will allow you to plug it into a battery tender every nite. The batt tender should bring the aux batt to full charge level overnite. If it reaches it early it will reduce charge output to a safe maintenance level that can be continued indefinitely.

 

[JJZ 109]

AFAIK, all NAPA batteries are Exide and I'm not a fan.

You need about 220 A-Hr of capacity and what you describe makes total sense.

BTW, ANY battery that advertises a "CCA" rating, IS NOT a "deep cycle" battery.

Pretty sure that Eastern Penn (Deka) makes NAPA's batteries. Whether or not that's the same as Exide, I can't say.
I agree with your statement about amp hours. That's why I wish I could find the specs on a NAPA 8276. The description shows it as a deep cycle, but only shows CCA, not amp hours. Confusing me a little bit there.
Should have mentioned in the original post - current battery is a Deka 908 DFT. I have no idea if that's a correct battery or if the selling dealer installed it as a cheaper way out.
I'm wondering if a high quality, higher amp hour golf cart battery is the best way out or if the battery has to be physically as large as the current one?

 

[Coyote machine]

I could not, initially figure out how a 'tractor bucket' would fit/ be of any use on a Ford 450 truck.:confused2: Then I read your equipment list, and figured out it was 'slang' for aerial lift bucket truck!:duh:

Here's how I'd approach your battery choices. Find out what battery was OEM to that application, then, taking into account what improvements have occurred since 2001 in battery technology, adjust accordingly. When I had my foreign auto repair shop, I was an Interstate battery dealer. I just found out when taking a battery to them recently, to be load tested, that they sell blemished batteries for about 1/2 of retail, AND they also sell used batteries? Not sure about wanting a 'used' batt, but 1/2 price brand new blems, with maybe a scratch on the outer casing; bring them on!
So, if you can find, by a search like this, for example, you could at least know whether deep cycle or starting is best suited to the wiring on your bucket truck.

https://www.google.com/search?q=200...rome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

I'm betting deep cycle, like on a boat application, where the battery that gets the lesser amount of use is deep cycle, for occasional use, like trolling motor, 'house' functions, like lights, bilge, etc. The outboard would get high CCA for engine start, thus a 'starting battery'.

 

[JJZ 109]

Here's how I'd approach your battery choices. Find out what battery was OEM to that application, then, taking into account what improvements have occurred since 2001 in battery technology, adjust accordingly.

I've Googled and looked through the Telsta service/parts manual that came with the truck. Nothing mentioned. It'd make life easier if I could find that info somewhere.
I just emailed a Trojan battery distributor from about 100 miles away. Hopefully they get back to me next week with some information.

 

[Coyote machine]

I hear you, that you'd like the info; sometimes it takes extra research time, finding long term owners/operators by searching used truck' owners, etc. The time spent can pay off in getting what you actually need, vs. guessing.
Who primarily bought these trucks? Utilities? Tree companies? What are current, similarly equipped trucks using for their bucket batteries?

 

[3930dave]

This is a separate battery that powers the lift. The V10 in the truck has it's own battery. There's a switch in the cab to activate power to the lift. The way it's been explained to me, when that switch is on, the lift battery powers the lift and is isolated from the rest of the charging system so that the truck battery doesn't get sapped. When the lift switch is off, the truck alternator charges that battery.
I'm kind of leaning toward the NAPA deep cycle (I believe Deka makes their batteries) in my earlier link, but the listing doesn't show amp hours.

I'd definitely go deep-cycle for your application. Deka or Trojan.

Your battery isolator switch does it's job - guaranteeing you can start the truck. Public Utility crews often just leave the truck running, so don't have the issue you describe. Then again, they don't pay for their own fuel - guessing that you do.

Even a deep cycle battery does not like to be deeply discharged, often - they survive this use better than starting batteries, but that is somewhat a damning with faint praise comparison. At the end of the day/week, battery maintainers can help, but your in-day use can be a factor too.

If you work 30 minutes at one site, then drive 40+ miles to another job, a healthy alternator should keep a hyd. pack battery happily topped up - given that the isolator switch is returned to the Charge position.

OTOH, if you work at one site for 2 hours, drive 1 mile to another site, work 3 hours..... you get the picture.... your hyd. pack battery may be suffering at the end of a long day like that.

Depending on your truck use patterns, I'd be tempted to hook up something like a Honda EU2000i to the hyd. pack battery - quiet, and they can put out 8amps DC for battery charging. Fire it up when you are parked on site - no matter how long you are there, the hyd. battery should be fine. A small Honda can be a good solution, but any generator+battery charger would work for this though. Some Telco trucks run on-board generators, for similar reasons.

(P.S. I'm no expert on bucket trucks, I'm only guessing at 8 amps being enough - I'm assuming just sporadic bucket movement for positioning, and light hyd. tool use now and then.).

Rgds, D.

 

[JJZ 109]

I hear you, that you'd like the info; sometimes it takes extra research time, finding long term owners/operators by searching used truck' owners, etc. The time spent can pay off in getting what you actually need, vs. guessing.
Who primarily bought these trucks? Utilities? Tree companies? What are current, similarly equipped trucks using for their bucket batteries?

I bought the truck from a dealer in PA who specializes in bucket trucks. They get them at auction and go through them fairly extensively before reselling them. I actually found my truck on the website of the auction company that the dealer got if from because the auction company left the information up for a few months. It originally belonged to Optimum Cable, I believe out of Long Island. The truck has what they call a splicer body on the back.
My previous bucket truck was an Altec. I still have an account with them and I bet they could enlighten me. The previous truck ran the lift with 2 standard size deep cycles instead of one huge battery like this truck has.

 

[Degolyerent]

How big is the alternator?

John

 

[JJZ 109]

How big is the alternator?

John

Good question. Stock for a 2001 F450 V10 as far as I know, but maybe higher performance for this application. Another question deserving some research. A quick look is showing 110 amp for stock, with optional 130.

 

[JJZ 109]

I believe I'll order a NAPA 8286 deep cycle today. Big battery, same dimensions as the current Deka 908 DTF. Will likely also get a Pro Logix 2520 charger/maintainer/reconditioner to keep right on the truck and plug in at the end of the day.
Thank you for all of the posts and assistance in getting to this point.