Educate me on having cattle

[EddieWalker]

With the recent passing of my brother, I'm in the process of taking ownership of his cattle. He has a 40 acre farm about 60 miles from my place. I have 68 acres. He has 15 Herford's and one Angus bull. From what I understand, he just bought the bull for $3,500 and he was wanting to cross breed the Herford's with the Angus to create Black Baldies.

Of the Herford's, there are 11 cows, but some might be heifers. I don't know their ages or history. There is one steer, and three intact, young bulls.

He does not have any type of handling system. From what I've been able to figure out, the got them into a fenced area that's probably 100x100 feet, then he used gates to funnel them into his trailer. I don't know how often he loaded them up, but I did find a receipt from the Van Zandt Livestock Exchange from earlier this year for a single cow.

Some of the cows have ear tags, some don't. None of the bulls have ear tags.

Some of the cows might be pregnant. They look like they are getting big around the belly. A lot wider then some of the others.

I do not have any records of any of them, but there might be something in his safe, which I still have to get into.

I'm currently feeding them 3 round bales a week of hay that I had planned on feeding my horses this winter. They are eating a lot of hay, way faster then I expected. I do not have enough hay to feed the cattle and my animals, so I'm going to have to buy a lot more, which is going to be expensive.

I need a plan.

I've started fencing part of my place that will be 24 acres when done. Eventually I'll fence in all of my land, but it's slow going and expensive. I do not have anywhere to put his cattle on my place right now, I'm maxed out with horses and goats.

Option 1 is to leave the cattle there and fence in my place, then bring them here and create a handling system, bigger barn and improve my pastures.

Option 2 is to do the same, but only bring the cows and Angus bull here, and leave the Herford bulls and steer there. I also think that I need to turn the bulls into steers, but I've never done this, and I don't know if it's too late or not. I will have to build a handling system to do this too, but I think I need to build it just to load animals.

Option 3 is to sell some of them right away. I'm planning on going to the Van Zandt Livestock Exchange next week. They have it every Saturday, and I drive right past it getting to my brothers place. The parking lot is full of trucks with trailers. I've never sold cattle, or been to an auction. So I need to figure this out right away. I think that the bulls and steer are too young to sell, but I don't really know for sure. I could get rid of some cows, but I don't know how to tell which ones should go and which should stay? My brother has a few friends that raise Herford's that have offered to help, but have been very slow to respond when I've asked questions. Or they reply that they will get back to me, and haven't. I think that I'm going to have to learn this on my own and help from others isn't gonna happen.

Option 4 is to sell all of them, cash out, focus on getting my land ready for cattle and my pace, and then buy cattle when I'm ready for them. I think this is the easy way out, and maybe the smart thing to do, but it goes against everything I believe in. My wife and I really want to keep the cattle, and build up a program to raise and sell them.

What would you do?

If I sold them at the Livestock Exchange, what should I know? Will they want proof of ownership? Proof of shots or medical records? I'll ask when I go there, but I'm hoping to have a small amount of knowledge before walking in there blind. Livestock Auction | Van Zandt Livestock Exchange | United States

And then there is the ultimate dream for all this as of right now. We buy the 40 acres, develop it into a hay ranch. The grass is really nice there, but its being chocked out with weeds and mesquite. I can clear the mesquite, spray and mow the weeds and end up with some really nice hay. I don't have any hay equipment, so that will be another challenge, but not too significant. Then it will also become our steer pasture, where we bring the steers from our place and let them grow out on his place before selling them at the Livestock Auction, just down the road. The cows and Angus Bull will do their thing at our place and we'll focus on breeding them here.

Doable? bad idea? other then spending lots of money, and there not being enough time to do all of this, what else am I missing?

Thanks

 

[Hay Dude]

I think any of them are doable. I never made much money with it, even selling beef, it was a bit better than break even on a small scale. I may actually be expanding and fencing in more land next year, though.

I’d say look at your finances and decide from that perspective unless the cows have a sentimental value to you and its a passion for you that breaks even or makes money.

Don’t forget vet bills, grains, fencing expenses and add them all up. Be conservative on your potential profits-a lot is lost on small expenses.

If you do keep, I highly suggest getting all tagged. I also think a vet may be a big help.

 

[Hay Dude]

Eddie, deep down I think you are a hay farmer and beef cattle raiser. I always knew I was one, too.

 

[TractorTech]

In regards to selling them, are they branded with your brother's brand? You might call your brand inspector (Look up online under Texas state livestock or brand inspector for your area) and tell them the situation to find out how you could sell some of the cattle legally.
I like your option 3 if you can swing it. Sell the young bulls and steer. Look at the cows and determine which are pregnant to keep (which ones look pregnant) and sell the others. Most of the cows in the pictures look pregnant are still young so you don't need replacement heifers to build the herd right now. Their offspring heifers will be two years before you will breed them so it would keep the herd fairly manageable. Keep the new bull for now. Bulls can be a real pain keeping them isolated from the cows though until you need him.
When you have the numbers on yours herd, then figure out what it will take to maintain those in hay.
Lot's of decisions, but you need to do your homework. Sorry for the death of your brother, but there is a lot to sort out just in the cattle I'm sure. Best of luck!

 

[scootr]

Cull the herd and keep the new bull a few of the youngest heffers. Embrace your brothers dream. It should be a rewarding experience.

 

[Streetcar]

If you don’t have any records on the cattle castrate the young bulls. Most people don’t want unknown bulls for their cattle. Steers are easier to handle generally

 

[LouNY]

Well the humorous but useless information would be ;
How much money do you have,
How long do you want it too last,
Divide the first by the second and that's how many cows you want....

On a more serious note, I see that you are somewhat east of central Texas.
I don't know what your normal rain fall is our how your normal rainfall pattern falls for hay making.
Or if you could irrigate for pasture or hay.
Large fenced pastures are the most inefficient ways to grow livestock.
Small pastures with rotational grazing will utilize the ground the best,
it does require considerable fencing which can be double or even single strand electric.

As I recall that area of Texas is fairly flat which could make hay equipment less expensive as a smaller tractor can do the job,
But a mower (preferably a discbine), baler (either small square or round), grapple or hay tine for loader, bale trailer, bale storage (or waste of expensive feed).

Beef can be grass raised and finished, but it will need to be a high protein and easy digestible product for finishing, unless you like dry and chewy beef. I prefer grain supplement fed for finishing the last 3-4 months as a minimum.
High quality digestible hay can be a challenge to grow and harvest,
rough coarse stemmed dry garbage that can keep a brood cow alive is not near as difficult to produce.

Corrals and a squeeze chute are almost a must to handle animals especially with minimal manpower. And for any vet work.
They can be portable panels attached together, a small catch pen in the larger corral with a run going to the squeeze chute is also very beneficial.

But it's all just money and time, good luck.

As far as the requirements for sale and through an auction barn will vary from state to state and upon the age of the animal. But often some vaccines and heath tests are required. As well as some ownership proof or just a statement of ownership.

 

[bcp]

Bruce

 

[mwayne]

If I remember correctly from decades ago, we had about that many momma cows on 100 acres in Ellis county. You shouldn't have to be feeding hay with the recent rains we had until we have had a frost, thinning the herd may be needed. Spending a Saturday at the livestock exchange and chatting with and learning from cattle people there might be well worth your time. Also factor in about 3 round trips a week in your decision making process.

 

[Torvy]

On a more serious note, I see that you are somewhat east of central Texas.
I don't know what your normal rain fall is our how your normal rainfall pattern falls for hay making.
Or if you could irrigate for pasture or hay.
Large fenced pastures are the most inefficient ways to grow livestock.
Small pastures with rotational grazing will utilize the ground the best,
it does require considerable fencing which can be double or even single strand electric.

As I recall that area of Texas is fairly flat which could make hay equipment less expensive as a smaller tractor can do the job,
But a mower (preferably a discbine), baler (either small square or round), grapple or hay tine for loader, bale trailer, bale storage (or waste of expensive feed).

Corrals and a squeeze chute are almost a must to handle animals especially with minimal manpower. And for any vet work.
They can be portable panels attached together, a small catch pen in the larger corral with a run going to the squeeze chute is also very beneficial.

Priefert Is about an hour, maybe 90 minutes, north of Eddie in Mount Pleasant. They have an outlet store, too. They are one of the top manufacturers of cattle panels, chutes and similar equipment.

Rainfall in this part of Texas is around 35" a year.

My advice is to love Excel. Tracking the cattle is a heck of a job. You can get custom software, but that gets expensive. Excel skills can get you the info with less overhead.

 

[shooterdon]

What would I do????

Sell everything expect for the cattle you can easily handle at your place. After a year you can decide if raising beef makes sense.

 

[Farmer495]

Beef market is high right now, local sales very strong. You could cash out readily... sell the $3500 bull as breeding bull if you have the pedigree papers, might get that much back, and sell the rest either as stock/slaughter cows or feeders You'd gross around $15k USD, so 18.5K not doing a thing other than loading on a truck.

I have beef and I'd be tempted to cash out right now....

Cost out what your hay cost will be...if they will eat 3 bales a week 52 weeks a year, or just when grass doesn't grow. I can get about 3-4 months of grass then I am feeding.

I sell at local sale barn, here you just have to have your name & address for them to send the cheque to. I am in Canada so cattle must have RFID tags in ears to sell and they scan them when you unload. Vet records not needed, but you can get a premium price if you have vaccination records.

If you have your heart set on cattle I would sell the 3 intact and steer ASAP and use the money to get place set up and buy some hay. I'd just sell the bulls as is, I rubber band them at 1-2 weeks old, no way do I want to mess with them when older and bigger. I've pinched cords on older stock and it's not for me.

Keep the Angus Bull and 11 females. Assume the bull bred the cows/heifers and wait for calves. If you leave the bull with the herd you can see if any go into heat and then you'll know. You can have vet preg check, but you need a headgate/chute for that. Will give you an idea when calves might come.

Your first crop of 11 calves when sold should give you an idea of what to expect income wise. You can keep heifers, but ultimately you would need a different bull quite often.

 

[LouNY]

If you breed at 16 months old to have them calving at 2 years old you will need a different bull every year and ahalf to prevent inbreeding, or you are going to need bull prove fencing to keep a couple of herds separated with different bulls for each.

 

[duffer]

Be prepared for a ball and chain around your ankle. No vacations, no long weekends. Gotta babysit and feed/water the cattle. And oh yeah, clean up all the poop.

 

[OldMcDonald]

@EddieWalker
I retired last year at the age of 77. I was brought up from a baby on my father’s horticultural/agricultural holding. I farmed on my own account for 61 years in 4 countries in both hemispheres. I have kept farm animals of most descriptions – pigs, sheep, goats, cattle, horses, and a few more exotic species; most kinds of poultry, fish and crustaceans. I have grown an extremely wide range of crops, trees, vegetables and fruit and can show every letter of the alphabet with their beginning letter (allowing for the Latin with Q, X and Z). The only thing I was never satisfied with the quality was cattle!!

Cattle are the hardest to learn about if you have not grown up with cattle. The timespan is the biggest problem. From a cow being bred to the time of her offspring producing a sellable calf is, give or take, 4 years. Maybe a bit under, maybe 5 years, and even longer if you fatten it. You do not have the time left in life to make a mark with unknown quality of stock that you will have to cull/keep according to your requirements. One failure in a small herd is a big percentage of your life lost for 5 years. You have to guess too far in advance whether a young female will produce what you want in terms of quality.

I am not trying to put you off cattle, just be realistic about what you can achieve with the starting stock available to you. When my wife and I moved to Portugal from Scotland in January 2003 there were people who told us we were too old to start a new life. I suggest you ignore such people, but still be aware of how long it takes to make any improvement in a cattle herd.

From the photographs, I like the look of the cows. Mainly polled, but a couple horned, and does the cow in the front of pic 2 have a turned in horn about to stick in her head? I had Herefords in Australia. I do not like the bull. If he is pure AA (and I doubt it, unless you have AA in USA with “nae arse” as we would say) then he is not a good example of the breed. I would sell him asap.

We have to go back to your other thread about your brother’s death. Who legally owns the cows now he is dead?

Ear tagging rules in most of the world are very strict. Make sure you check out with the correct state department whether anything has to be done before stock can be sold. No doubt there are ways around any problems on the basis of your brother being in such dire straits that he is now dead. Talk to the people at the livestock exchange once you know what can be done about sales.

You cannot operate two properties 60 miles apart without the welfare of the stock suffering. Over the years of being on TBN I think I know enough about you that you would not want that to happen.

If you want to keep some of the cows (and possibly a pure bred Hereford heifer or two) then go ahead and do so. It will be expensive to provide the necessary handling facilities on your own property, but if that is what you (and your wife – most important) want, then go for it. If you do, then I would look towards a small herd of Herefords. Artificial insemination is the easy way to improve pure breds and is very easy. Do not bother to learn how to do it yourself, just pay for the service (literally!).

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

View attachment 769381


Bruce

But we have livestock, I live that life and enjoy it.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I'm 53 and came into the world with cattle in the pasture. We had a mid 50's Ford 3/4 ton flatbed and a single axle two cow trailer with wood sides. If you're not paying for land and own the equipment you can make money with 1000 head. Other than that, you're investing in a hobby. You'll get a lot of tax deduction out of it. The government don't stop you with cattle. You can continue and it is okay to lose money on cattle every year. IRS has a guide How To Set Up A Farm As A Tax Shelter. Doctors and lawyers have lots of farms.

My daddy told me years ago. You can buy things and have tax deductions, or you can pay someone to sit on the porch all day and wait for your money to hit their mail box.
That's really how it is, basically. You will have to get some pipe and succer rod to build a catch pen, corral, and chute to handle them. Panels don't work. Done tried that. Young bull got his head through the panels and took off with 60 of them. Lunged for about 100' and fell over. Cut panel in two with a battery sawzall to get that wild son of a gun loose. We still use the panels but they have a piece of 4" pipe concreted between each one. They stay in place that way.

Down here a lot of your young cattle are sold to Montana. White underbelly cattle sunburn on the snow. So they want black. We keep an Angus bull and have black calves no matter what the mother is. If you get long horn cows you can have black calves from them too, sell before the horns pop out. With longhorns you have to buy cows that don't have a saddle of color on their backs. They won't have a black calf. You want them colored like a paint horse, splotchy. Lot of people use longhorns because they eat so much junk. Throw a round bale out, they look at it, and keep eating briars.

 

[3Ts]

The texas agrilife folks have a short course on beef cows. You should look into that course. One of the things that came out was to plan on 35 pounds of hay per cow per day unless pregnant, then it is more.

 

[kenmac]

I will say, you need to do something with the young bulls. More than one bull in the pasture is going to cause issues. Depending on the big bull's attitude, he could kill those smaller ones.

On a second note. You need to try to age those heifers. They don't need to be bred too young, but of course it may be too late.
I bred my heifers at around 18 months .

It is said, you have to keep a good paying job to be able afford your cattle ! LOL

I know when I started, the guys around me asked..
'' you want to know how to make a small fortune in the cattle business'' ?
Of course eager me says yes !
He says, ''start with a large fortune, pretty soon you'll have a small fortune''

 

[MossRoad]

...

What would you do?

...

Assuming I know nothing about raising cattle, so same knowledge as you, I'd pick:

Option 3.5

Sell most of them, make a smaller temporary spot for them at your place so you aren't driving 60 miles each way 3 times a week (360 miles, 6 hours a week + chore time). Use the money you get from selling most of them to make a larger spot at your place and get used to the process of raising cattle. Then think about your idea of haying his place for a source of hay, then pasturing them at his place in the future if you find out that's the way to go.

Man, you got a lot to think about. I'd start with some questions here.

tag based on what is being viewed. We filter the output of wp_title() a bit - see agriflex_filter_wp_title() in functions.php. --> <title> Directory - Texas A&M AgriLife Extension County Offices

counties.agrilife.org

It'll be interesting to see what you find out, and best of luck to you and your wife.