Electric car -- A different thought

[SamWalton]

I found a company which claims to get you "5 times your current gas mileage". Their device is called the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter. It looks to be a simple install but is not available for all engines yet. I am waiting on a quote and availablity. Their second product, the Hydro Assist Fuel Cell is available but don't look worth the trouble.

Check out their web site
Engine Modification
I am wondering if the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter will ever be available and that it may be a bate and switch.

 

[RonMar]

I found a company which claims to get you "5 times your current gas mileage". Their device is called the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter. It looks to be a simple install but is not available for all engines yet. I am waiting on a quote and availablity. Their second product, the Hydro Assist Fuel Cell is available but don't look worth the trouble.

Check out their web site
Engine Modification
I am wondering if the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter will ever be available and that it may be a bate and switch.

Sounds like BS to me. 5 times the economy? Thermodynamics are what they are, and the process just isn't going to get significantly more efficient IMO. I am a pretty simple guy, but I just don't think that is possible with the same machine, no matter how much you break down the fuel molecules.

IMO, this sounds like a variation of the fuel line magnet scam(molecular re-alignment?), but YMMV...

As for the Hydrogen assist fuel cell, they say it "cracks" the hydrogen and oxygen from distilled water. First of all, where does the distilled water come from, that isn't free...
It takes about 4 times the ammount of energy to crack water into it's component gasses, than you get out of those gasses. This is something that those pushing the "hydrogen economy" don't readilly advertise.

In the case of a car, where does the energy to crack the hydrogen come from? From the electrical system and alternator which is only about 50% efficient at turning torque into electricity in the first place... So you draw from a 50% efficient system, increasing the load on the engine and burning more fuel, to power a less than 25% efficient process. I don't think the added benefits(if any) will make up for this horrible conversion efficiency...

There is no free lunch.

 

[SamWalton]

Sounds like BS to me. 5 times the economy? Thermodynamics are what they are, and the process just isn't going to get significantly more efficient IMO. I am a pretty simple guy, but I just don't think that is possible with the same machine, no matter how much you break down the fuel molecules.

IMO, this sounds like a variation of the fuel line magnet scam(molecular re-alignment?), but YMMV...

As for the Hydrogen assist fuel cell, they say it "cracks" the hydrogen and oxygen from distilled water. First of all, where does the distilled water come from, that isn't free...
It takes about 4 times the ammount of energy to crack water into it's component gasses, than you get out of those gasses. This is something that those pushing the "hydrogen economy" don't readilly advertise.

In the case of a car, where does the energy to crack the hydrogen come from? From the electrical system and alternator which is only about 50% efficient at turning torque into electricity in the first place... So you draw from a 50% efficient system, increasing the load on the engine and burning more fuel, to power a less than 25% efficient process. I don't think the added benefits(if any) will make up for this horrible conversion efficiency...

There is no free lunch.

Super-Efficient Electrolysis. Water can be broken into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity. Standard chemistry books claim that this process requires more energy than can be recovered when the gases are recombined. This is true only under the worst case scenario. When water is hit with its own molecular resonant frequency, using a system developed by Stan Meyers (USA) and again recently by Xogen Power, Inc., it collapses into hydrogen and oxygen gas with very little electrical input. Also, using different electrolytes (additives that make the water conduct electricity better) changes the efficiency of the process dramatically. It is also known that certain geometric structures and surface textures work better than others do. The implication is that unlimited amounts of hydrogen fuel can be made to drive engines (like in your car) for the cost of water. Even more amazing is the fact that a special metal alloy was patented by Freedman (USA) in 1957 that spontaneously breaks water into hydrogen and oxygen with no outside electrical input and without causing any chemical changes in the metal itself. This means that this special metal alloy can make hydrogen from water for free, forever.

 

[RonMar]

Well you just go right on believing that if you want to Sam. Funny that if it is "Free", that there are not more people using this almost magical technology. These things get a lot of talk, untill someone goes to verify it, then everything gets real quiet...

Me, I think I will use my meager resources elsewhere untill something a little more verifiable comes along...

Wanna do something more efficient? look into recovering energy from the waste heat in the cooling system and the exhaust system. That is where about 2/3 of the energy in the gas you burn goes.

Untill proven otherwise, there is still NO free lunch...

 

[MossRoad]

I found a company which claims to get you "5 times your current gas mileage". Their device is called the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter. It looks to be a simple install but is not available for all engines yet. I am waiting on a quote and availablity. Their second product, the Hydro Assist Fuel Cell is available but don't look worth the trouble.

Check out their web site
Engine Modification
I am wondering if the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter will ever be available and that it may be a bate and switch.

Sounds like snake oil. Don't buy it until you see it in use for yourself by someone you trust. Don't be a sucker. Have you ever, ever seen anyone that you know turn a 25 MPG car into a 125MPG car by simply installing one, simple device? Nope.

With that said, it never hurts to research the subject thoroughly, as long as it is not at your expense. Just read up on it, and let someone else take the chances until it becomes a standard, well accepted product.

 

[SamWalton]

The Super-Efficient Electrolysis is a reality. You ask the question why it is not in every home. As I attempted to state on this thread previously but my post was deleted by mikepa. It is very simple, he who has the gold rules. In my opinion all designs and technologies which would free the common man from purchasing energies will be suppressed. Many open minded people have turned their backs to the mainstream and developed new technologies in there own garages. Many things we all enjoy today were conceived this way. One must also understand any threat to the money and power will be removed, such as any device which could be mass produced to free the common man from purchasing energy. You can believe anything you want but one day you will get tired of working for something that is free.

 

[MossRoad]

The Super-Efficient Electrolysis is a reality. You ask the question why it is not in every home. As I attempted to state on this thread previously but my post was deleted by mikepa. It is very simple, he who has the gold rules. In my opinion all designs and technologies which would free the common man from purchasing energies will be suppressed. Many open minded people have turned their backs to the mainstream and developed new technologies in there own garages. Many things we all enjoy today were conceived this way. One must also understand any threat to the money and power will be removed, such as any device which could be mass produced to free the common man from purchasing energy. You can believe anything you want but one day you will get tired of working for something that is free.

I'm all for you spending your money on it and reporting back to us how it works out. Sounds like you have your mind made up, so go for it. Looking forward to your report.

 

[RonMar]

Sam, you better hurry and order one before this one gets "supressed" also...

 

[SamWalton]

I don't have my mind made up on anything and I don't care to save the world. Also if I were to have success with such a device I would keep it under my hat. I do find it interesting how many people think nothing is possible unless they see it on TV or some other media outlet. The world is no longer flat and many other things in your head are there for a reason, this doesn't make it true. The truth is revisionary and constantly evolving and may never be completely understood. The Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter is something I found interesting because it is unusual for a company to produce such a device. I certainly have my doubts. Myself I plan on being off the grid and free of gas soon. As for being suppressed anyone without an open mind is already there.

 

[MikePA]

The Super-Efficient Electrolysis is a reality. You ask the question why it is not in every home. As I attempted to state on this thread previously but my post was deleted by mikepa.

Your post was deleted because it was political, not because you were attempting to explain anything.

 

[Tom_H]

The Super-Efficient Electrolysis is a reality.

Someone has talked you into a belief system. You are not looking at the science. The law of the preservation of mass and energy prevents what you are claiming from being possible. Sub-atomic mass, at its most basic level, smaller than quarks, actually consists of packets of energy.

The bonds that hold hydrogen and oxygen together cannot be broken by any of these absurd means that someone has brainwashed you into "believing". (Some religious zealots still believe the Earth is flat and the center of the universe. Arguing with them is pointless.) Electrolysis is an endothermic or endergonic reaction. You cannot break the bonds without the energy input. This is a matter of science, not a matter of belief. When Hydrogen and Oxygen bond, the reaction is exothermic. The same amount of energy has to be put back into the molecule to break it. Since electrolysis is not 100% efficient, more energy is required to break the bonds than is given off when they are created. I used to teach both Chemistry and Physics. I am not trying to be unkind to you, but the plain simple truth is that you have no earthly clue whatsoever as to what you are talking about. You have been reading fiction, and have come to believe what has been fed to you in a hoax. This is not like theologians debating pre-millinealism vs. post-millinealism or predestination vs. free will, or eternal security vs. falling from grace. All that is in the realm of metaphysics. This issue lies in the realm of science. There is no verifiable, repeatable, peer-reviewed, controlled laboratory research in existence anywhere to support all this nonsense you espouse.

 

[RonMar]

It is kind of funny, or sad, the links that now come up at the top of this thread.

"Run your car on water" and "Hydrogen car kit"... I guess Hydrogen is one of those buzz words that triggers the search engine.

A better way may come along one of these days, but these are not it. Untill such time, based on my hard won knowledge, I will remain skeptical untill someone can actually reproduce and offer independent confirmation.

Making hydrogen gas has been pretty throughly explored to make rocket fuel and the energies involved are enormous converting from whatever resource to hydrogen...

These vendors sell based on a dream and wishfull thinking, both of which are usually contrary to the actual science involved.

True knowledge is usually gained from someone who is NOT trying to sell you something...

 

[SamWalton]

QUOTE Tom_H "I used to teach both Chemistry and Physics."

Tom H is it possible you may be a left brain prisoner. You must admit, there is much to be discovered and to put such faith in out dated education. Maybe you could open you mind to consider the possibilities. After all it is those who defy the masses who make the discoveries, not the one who choose to criticize. Unless you have researched and tried these methods you are just spouting the same old. Also as long as we all maintain these attitudes no one will ever advance. When it comes to a solution to the energy crises don't rely on the corporations. Unless they have got you wallet there is no reason to do business

 

[Wayne County Hose]

When it comes to a solution to the energy crises don't rely on the corporations. Unless they have got you wallet there is no reason to do business

Boy, as a small businessman, I have to disagree. Any corporation that could come up with a solution to the energy crisis would quickly find their stock values increasing far beyond computation. They would be Nobel Prize winners, rich beyond comprehension, etc. Isn't that what all good capitalists strive for?

 

[SamWalton]

Boy, as a small businessman, I have to disagree. Any corporation that could come up with a solution to the energy crisis would quickly find their stock values increasing far beyond computation. They would be Nobel Prize winners, rich beyond comprehension, etc. Isn't that what all good capitalists strive for?

Maybe you didn't comprehend my last statement "Unless they have got you wallet there is no reason to do business" This means until they find a way to package such a system which will allow them to profit and control energy resources they will have nothing to do with it. Unless you think any corporation is foolish enough to go against the big bucks of the oil industry we will be waiting for a new kind of gas pump possibly one you pay with your sweat or blood.

 

[Tom_H]

We advance through scientific research in a laboratory. It is you who is trapped, trapped in believing in fantasy. These formulas follow Einstein's Theory of General Relativity. You cannot just knock the atoms of the molecule apart, then allow them to combine and give off all that exothermic energy all over again. Energy has to be put into the system before it can be released from the system.

This is not about me not believing what may be possibly discovered in the future. Your statements about being closed minded are very naive. You have not seen me say anywhere that amazing things will not be discovered in the future. This is about you repeating untested theories (actually, they have been tested and shown to be untrue) that someone else has convinced you to believe as truth. You claim this stuff is "reality". It is not reality. It has never been done. There is no research anywhere proving it has been done. There are just charlatans making up a theory and claiming that it is truth. A hypothesis only becomes truth through rigorous scientific testing and verification. "Believing" something does not make it true. One can believe in Oz, Wonderland, Narnia, and such places. Just because they exist in the mind of a writer, does not make them real.

All kinds of new things will be discovered in the future. Those accepted as true will have been verified by scientific research, not by debate using syllogistic or dialectic logic or any means of epistemology other than the hypothetico-deductive model of scientific investigation. It is this model that proved that spontaneous generation did not make rats come from cheese nor bacteria from pure water. This method brought us modern vaccines and microelectronics like the computer at which you now sit.

Theories may well indeed originate in the right brain. Calling someone a "left-brain prisoner" does nothing to distinguish fact from fantasy however. The theories in which you have come to believe have not been tested and verified. It is a long way from hypothesis to accepted fact. That is the place in which you have become lost.

 

[Bird]

I think it's time to close this thread.