Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

Travelover · Apr 27, 2017

Check out used Volts and Leafs. You can get screaming deals on low mileage used ones.

Redneck in training · Apr 27, 2017

TCJatko said:
Great, another coal-powered car.

Google Image Result for http://ecampus.matc.edu/mihalj/scitech/scitechfiles/discussion/unit4/U.S.-Electricity-Net-Generation-By-Fuel-212.jpg

1.) Gasoline or diesel car uses about 5% of energy originally contained in the fuel when it was still underground. Electric car uses about 20-25%.
2.) Coal burning plants need night load (in ex. street lights) to keep running. Sooner or later all street lights will be replaced by high efficiency fixtures lowering the night load. Electric car night charging might be the night load that will keep the coal burning plants running.
Electric cars are comming and there is not way to stop it. Especially in Europe where comute is shorter and gasoline or diesel is several times more expensive than in the USA.

newbury · Apr 27, 2017

TCJatko said:
Great, another coal-powered car.

Google Image Result for http://ecampus.matc.edu/mihalj/scitech/scitechfiles/discussion/unit4/U.S.-Electricity-Net-Generation-By-Fuel-212.jpg

That may be 2012 data.
For 2016 in the US:

Natural gas = 33.8%
Coal = 30.4%
Nuclear = 19.7%
Renewables (total) = 14.9%
Hydropower = 6.5%
Wind = 5.6%
Biomass = 1.5%
Solar = 0.9%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Petroleum = 0.6%
Other gases = 0.3%
Other nonrenewable sources = 0.3%
Pumped storage hydroelectricity = -0.2%4

source

TCJatko · Apr 27, 2017

newbury said:
That may be 2012 data.
For 2016 in the US: source

Good. I'd like to see nuclear power ramp up to cover more of our needs. It's safe, clean, and efficient; just ask the French.

Nuclear Power in France | French Nuclear Energy - World Nuclear Association

TCJatko · Apr 27, 2017

Redneck in training said:
People buy cars for various reasons. Economy and/or environmental reasons are just two of them. I like electric cars. They are quiet, have great acceleration, no oil changes, brake pads last forever etc and are cheap to run. The "fuel" cost is more or less stable while the cost of gasoline or diesel is volatile. We commute several times a week about 130 miles round trip. We also make own electric power so electric car such as Bolt makes sense to us. I calculated monhly cost of electric energy for car like Bolt and our driving to about $15-20/month while cost of gasoline for a car could be anywhere between 180 to 250/month plus five oil changes per year.

How's that going to work in the winter? Does the heat/defrost work well? How about powering the AC unit in those sweltering Iowa summers? I agree electric cars are fine for an urban environment, but gasoline or propane-powered vehicles are better able to cope with the sometimes extreme conditions in the countryside. Maybe we'll all need to have one of each.

Redneck in training · Apr 27, 2017

TCJatko said:
How's that going to work in the winter? Does the heat/defrost work well? How about powering the AC unit in those sweltering Iowa summers? I agree electric cars are fine for an urban environment, but gasoline or propane-powered vehicles are better able to cope with the sometimes extreme conditions in the countryside. Maybe we'll all need to have one of each.

Heat is not big problem I suppose. The electric motors generate some heat. In fact, the Tesla motor is water cooled. If the motor uses 50 kW and has 97% efficiency there is 1.5 kW of heat that can be used to heat the car. I need to reserach the AC but I think it should't be a problem either. My house of 2500 sqft has 5 kW compressor. Car is about 25 sqft so even with less insulation AC shouldn't be a big hit on energy comsumption.
Since the AC in electric cars is stand alone unit it could be powered by solar integrated into the car roof and work even when the car is parked. Wouldn't you prefer to get into precooled car at hot summer day? And you could leave your baby or dog in the car too.

California · Apr 27, 2017

How's that going to work? I think what's new and different about Bolt, is it is finally an electric car that meets the expectations of some significant part of the population for normal use.

Live in the snow? Get a Subaru, not a Bolt. Live in the central states with all-day drives to see the relatives? Nope, get a freeway cruiser. Home and most frequent destination are 100 miles apart, my circumstances? Bolt should work for my most common application, and for many people.

Listen to Redneck In Training, he has a little more of a world view than many of us. The US will be behind other nations in adopting electric cars because of our vast distances but I think there is definitely a place for them here. China will likely be the electric car capital of the world, they have to do something Right Now about their deadly urban air pollution.

Car and Driver:

we performed a real-world range test that mimics a long highway road trip. With the cruise control set to 75 mph and the climate system set to 72 degrees, we drove the battery to exhaustion in 190 miles.

As far as we're concerned, that's still more than enough for daily-driving duties.

My only reservation is about GM quality. I bought a Chevrolet Citation, waited until they had built 500,000 of them hoping they had most of the bugs out. Nope, worst car I've ever owned. I sold it at 45k miles when it couldn't keep up with freeway traffic due to both a worn out camshaft and the clutch was slipping after it had been replaced once. (I've never worn out a clutch in any other equipment). Clutch cable broke leaving me to get home without ever stopping. Seat upholstery ripped when I put my knee into it to open the opposite side door. 5 oil leaks when new. And lots more similar that I've forgotten. I swore I would never buy another GM car again, and haven't for 35+ years. Hopefully they are better now.

fidowanttobe · Apr 27, 2017

Yeah, GM has come a ways since 1982.
Just a few of GM's Awards for 2016
Chevrolet Bolt EV is MOTOR TREND Car of the Year®
GM Dominates the Top 10 in Study of Most American-Made Vehicles
GMC Wins Most Refined Brand for Fourth Consecutive Year
GM Takes Top Honor in IHS Markit Loyalty Awards for Second Consecutive Year
Customers Rank Buick Highest Among Mass Market Brands for Sales Satisfaction
GM Leads Industry in J.D. Power APEAL Study Awards
GMC Named Most Ideal Popular Brand For Third Straight Year
Buick Verano Named Industry’s Most Dependable Vehicle

dickfoster · Apr 27, 2017

Until a truly decent solution to power the grid is put into place, electric cars will remain a stupid environmental disaster to own or operate. They are idiotic to say the least and only someone who knows nothing of physics would ever allow themselves to be hoodwinked into buying or owning one must less operating one. If it weren't for subsidies paid for by us taxpayers electric cars would not exist and every company producing one would be bankrupt and out of business as they should be. Electric cars are nothing more than an idiotic ruse played on ignorant people who are devoid of common sense.

Someday I'll tell ya what I really feel about electric cars.