Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[California]

Thread title says practical. ICE is cheaper, so only an individual can make their own choice about how much less practicality they want to afford.

I agree, everyone's circumstance will be different. It looks to me that Bolt is the first EV where total life cycle cost may be competitive with ICE. As you note each individual has to appraise what works for their own circumstances.

I tend to use a car for a dozen years or more. I paid cash for my present ones bought new in 1999 and 2005. It may take such a long payout to break even compared to ICE total cost of ownership, but at least for me it looks like it might be an even comparison.

In contrast early depreciation would kill anyone who leases or trades in for new every three years.

Don't underestimate the contribution of far lower operating and maintenance expense, in reducing total lifetime cost of ownership.

Another advantage that is strictly personal is the gas station with substantially lower prices near me, (53 cents/gallon less than one at a nearby freeway offramp) is so busy you often need to compete with idiots who cut in line, and then fight off the homeless crazies who want to wash the windshield. Final straw was their aisle payment terminals recently quit accepting cash, you have to go inside and wait in line at the counter before pumping. My wife is afraid every time she goes there. Charging at home and never going to that gas station again would improve the quality of our lives. As you noted, everyone's individual circumstances will lead them to their own choice. In some cases a strict dollar comparison doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[wawajake]

If you are over 50 yrs old now, you won't see the day that you buy a car and park it at your rural house and use it by jumping into it and punching in your location, and leaving the driving to it, as you sleep or talk on your wrist phone, oblivious to the rural roads around you.......now you will get to see electric cars (you drive ) maybe get to 50 to 75% of the market , and you may see some autonomous cars in the city that your taxes will have paid for .............just being realistic without all the marketing hype that companies want to lure investors into.

 

[California]

If you are over 50 yrs old now, you won't see the day that you buy a car and park it at your rural house and use it by jumping into it and punching in your location, and leaving the driving to it, as you sleep or talk on your wrist phone, oblivious to the rural roads around you.......now you will get to see electric cars (you drive ) maybe get to 50 to 75% of the market , and you may see some autonomous cars in the city that your taxes will have paid for .............just being realistic without all the marketing hype that companies want to lure investors into.

All true. EV's (as propulsion) are coming, they make sense now for some countries, and will in the future for more countries.

Self-driving not so much. It's going to take years of machine learning before those can handle the diversity of circumstances found in the real world out beyond the scope of autonomous urban taxis etc.

 

[buickanddeere]

All true. EV's (as propulsion) are coming, they make sense now for some countries, and will in the future for more countries.

Self-driving not so much. It's going to take years of machine learning before those can handle the diversity of circumstances found in the real world out beyond the scope of autonomous urban taxis etc.

Without grants, tax incentives and subsidies the EV market would consist of golf carts.

 

[vvanders]

That's an interesting idea. I'm not in the market for an $80,000+ car, and I assumed they wouldn't be open for a test drive, after I told them so. I'll check that out and see what they think.

I was having some difficulty differentiating marketing from current reality on their web site at Autopilot | Tesla. On one hand, they say amazing things like, "When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you." But they also say, "Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction." I'm not clear on what the feature actually does today. I live in rural Ohio, in case that matters.

I view the autopilot as a very sophisticated cruise control. I'm still the driver, and I'm still responsible for operating the vehicle, so I'm also responsible for disabling autopilot just as soon as I think it's doing something less than ideal.

Yeah, the parking stuff is a bit aspirational. There is auto-park, but it has to "see" the spot and takes 2-3x longer than if I manually park. They've shown spot seeking but it's not rolled out yet.

Your view on AP as an improved cruise is spot-on, that's how I use it.

Totally hear you on the test-drive. When went and did ours the only one the had available was optioned at $132k(!). I wasn't super-comfortable driving something that high(ours was much, much less). Ironically during the test drive we witnessed a pretty gnarly accident on the freeway(car on the side of road forgot to set parking brake and rolled into traffic). Between the always-on rear camera and regen-decel that happens when you life off the throttle both of us were impressed on how well it handled the whole thing that we were sold.

Anyway, I'd reach out to them and the worst they can say is no. However if you're a prospective Model 3 buyer I'd guess that they'd be accommodating.

 

[MossRoad]

.......Final straw was their aisle payment terminals recently quit accepting cash, you have to go inside and wait in line at the counter before pumping. .......

I've never seen an aisle payment terminal. What's that? Why don't you pay with a credit card? Personal preference? I rarely carry cash anymore and haven't gone into a gas station in years except if I want a Gatorade or donut or something else that's bad for me. :laughing:

 

[California]

I've never seen an aisle payment terminal. What's that? Why don't you pay with a credit card? Personal preference? I rarely carry cash anymore and haven't gone into a gas station in years except if I want a Gatorade or donut or something else that's bad for me. :laughing:

Just personal preference. I use credit cards for most everything, but not gas. Last time I looked there is a transaction fee to use any card at that cheap station.

 

[houstonscott]

Just personal preference. I use credit cards for most everything, but not gas. Last time I looked there is a transaction fee to use any card at that cheap station.

Oh, come on man. Tier one fuels only.

 

[California]

Oh, come on man. Tier one fuels only.

Nearly always ARCO. That's their trademark!: Quality TOP TIER ｮ Gas For Less

Wikipedia - ARCO is known for its low-priced gasoline compared to other national brands.

It's good enough for the girls I go with to quote an old Carpenter buddy. Actually it's now BP fuel sold here under that trademark.

 

[drssg]

Don't wait for the Model 3, they're happy to let people do test drives just to help raise awareness of EVs and Autopilot/etc. ...

You were right! I test drove a Tesla S today, and he didn't appear at all taken back when I told him I was planning to wait for the Model 3. He still tried like the dickens to sell me a Model S, but I can't blame the guy for doing his job. He didn't act at all snotty, like I was wasting his time.

I thought it was quite an impressive car. We tested out the autopilot, and that gave me a better understanding of how it works.
It would take some time for me to get comfortable with it, as it was a weird feeling to take my hands off the wheel at highway speeds. I finally understood that autopilot doesn't know anything about stop signs, traffic lights, or where I'm going. It primarily just stays in its lane and uses adaptive cruise control to maintain a safe following distance.

If I understood correctly, the only benefit of buying the "full self-driving" option ($3000) is that it would cost $4000 to enable it later. It currently doesn't have any functionality, because it is not legal (at least in Ohio).

Thanks again for the suggestion. I never would have checked them out without it. I receive Tesla's newsletter updates and plan to stay informed on the Model 3 status.