Electric Drive Motor Retrofit

MossRoad · Feb 26, 2019

I think (that's scary) that the tram pump to motor mount is an industry standard size mount. I don't know the spec, but it's an industry standard. You could probably re-use it with no problem on the tram pump side. On the gas motor side, it's also an industry standard bolt pattern. I'd start looking at the electric motor bolt patterns and shaft sizes and lengths first to see if there are any electric motors that fit that mount. But I doubt it. So, find a suitable motor, determine it's bolt pattern, drill the gas motor side of the existing mount to match that electric motor bolt pattern....

or you may have to weld a plate to that mount to get the hole size correct, or perhaps there's an industry standard plate already made for that electric motor that could be welded onto the existing gas motor side of that pump adapter, you get the idea.

Then it would be a matter of determining the shaft length and size of the electric motor, cutting length to fit if necessary, and getting a love-joy connector that will fit the electric motor shaft and mate to the other love-joy connector that's already on the tram pump.

That was long winded. :laughing:

ponytug · Feb 28, 2019

Just look for a motor that has a C in its frame description e.g. 213C, which means it has bolt holes for fastening the motor by the faCe.

You probably want to think about three phase AC motors for ease of control, and the power/volume and power/weight are close to DC motors. If you can find a blown Chevy Volt, it would have pretty much everything that you need- just take out the engine.

A friend used to convert gas cars to electric as a hobby. He made up a trailer that enabled him to slap in a new gas pedal and motors and drive everything from the trailer to give folks an idea of what their electric conversion would be like. You might want to think about this conversion in stages; where adding a trailer of batteries to a PT frame, and then putting a mongo electric motor in the tub, and driving everything from that to begin with. It might not be efficient, but it would get you started.

Longer term, I think you want a way to drive front & rear separately from driving the PTO (three motors, two or three motor controllers, as many motor controllers don't like feeding two different loads), and you might want to add a secondary (small) motor to run the auxiliaries on demand with an accumulator, and so yes, three or four motors.

I hope that you have fun with this; it sounds like a real challenge. Be careful; there is a lot of energy in both the batteries and the motor outputs. As in 25-50,000 watts. As in you arc weld with a fraction of that.

All the best,

Peter

MossRoad · Feb 28, 2019

That cart idea to get some feel is pretty good!

And yes, wouldn't it be nice to not have to spin the main PTO pump all the time. I can't think of a time when I wouldn't want the tram and steering pumps working independantly, but separating out the FEL and QA pump section would be worthy.

On a side note....

Suck Amps....

:laughing:

Interesting quick video on stupid fast street legal electric drag car. Interesting ideas.

radios1 · Feb 28, 2019

ponytug said:
You probably want to think about three phase AC motors for ease of control, and the power/volume and power/weight are close to DC motors.

as far as AC motors on a speed controller go, you need an expensive VSD motor, and a VSD driver, so it don't burn out, regular AC motors are designed to run at one speed, and on a sine wave.. as far as weight goes, a brushed DC motor would be much lighter, and smaller than an AC induction motor.

aczlan · Feb 28, 2019

MossRoad said:
And yes, wouldn't it be nice to not have to spin the main PTO pump all the time. I can't think of a time when I wouldn't want the tram and steering pumps working independantly, but separating out the FEL and QA pump section would be worthy.

Personally, unless you have a bunch of hydraulic driven attachments, I would look at converting your attachments to be driven directly by an electric motor.
Less power loss that way.
Then you need a small motor to run the pumps for steering and hydraulics to lift/lower/dump the bucket.

Aaron Z

MossRoad · Feb 28, 2019

Well, again, we're gonna get into complicated do-do here and not keep to the KISS principle.

Currently (no pun intended):

The MAIN PTO PUMP is always on and bypassed back to the tank until the electric diverter valve switch is flipped on the dash, which then directs the main PTO flow out to the ports on the FEL arms, through an implement, and back to the tank. It's constant flow and only varies in flow with the speed of the gas engine. You'd have to remove that pump from the end of the tram pump, find a motor mount and a motor, and a place to put that in the engine bay.

The AUX PTO/FEL/STEERING PUMP is always on and sending flow to the steering valve, out a power-beyond port to the three valve bank that controls the FEL raise/lower (1st valve), dump/curl (2nd valve), quick attach/AUX PTO functions (3rd valve), then back to the tank. It's constant flow and only varies in flow with the speed of the gas engine. You'd have to remove that pump from the end of the main PTO pump, find a motor mount and a motor, and a place to put that in the engine bay.

The TRAM PUMP is always on, a closed loop system, with makeup by the charge pump from the tank, through the filter, and back to the tank. While the charge pump is always pumping, it's not a huge load. Any significant load on from the tram pump comes when you step on the pedals, change the angle of the swash plate, and direct closed loop fluid to flow against resistance in the wheel motors caused by traction. You'd have to remove that tram pump from the gas engine, find a motor mount and a motor, and a place to put that in the engine bay.

If you separated all three pumps, and gave them all separate motors, you'd have to add circuitry to control all of them off or on. I don't think you'd want variable speed on the electric motors.

Let's look at the following scenario; loading a bucket with dirt from a pile.

You approach the pile while lowering and leveling the bucket, varying speed as you approach the pile. You drive into the pile while you raise and curl the bucket to crowd the bucket with material. You slow and stop, then reverse while turning and lowering the bucket to near ground level. Then you turn as you pull forward and off you go.

How are you going to control turning the AUX PTO/FEL/STEERING PUMP off and on as needed? You can't turn it off while you're tramming because it controls steering, too.

I can't see the want or need to turn that pump off at any time the machine is in operation other than if you would want to run a stationary implement, like a splitter or chipper.

The only pump I'd want to be able to operate independantly is the MAIN PTO. And, as stated, there's a huge loss of power going from battery, to electric motor, to hydraulic power, and it might be more effieceint to run something like a mower with an electric motor instead of hydraulics.

Sooo,

We gain space if we remove the engine, gas tank, muffler, and starting battery. That's a lot of space. We consume space with electric motors and mounts and batteries.

I still think, for simple operation for short periods of time, it would be better to remove the gas engine, muffler, gas tank and starting battery and replace with just one electric motor and batteries and see how it goes. That would be the cheapest experiment and you'd not have to have speed controls, just on/off switch.

MossRoad · Feb 28, 2019

Maybe disconnect the MAIN PTO pump by removing it from the system, but then you'd have to make sure the AUX PTO/FEL/STEERING pump can be moved forward to the rear of the TRAM PUMP.

Also, maybe the MAIN PTO pump is the last in the pump stack, and then all you'd have to do is remove it. Easy peasy.

Or, if it's like my setup, you're screwed because the TRAM PUMP is on the other side of the gas engine from the stacked MAIN and AUX pumps, and that means they run in opposite rotation, unlike the three stacked pumps where they all run the same rotation. Maybe they're rotation reversible and it's not a concern. Just throwing more food for tought out there. :licking:

BobRip · Feb 28, 2019

I just wanted to say this is very interesting. Please keep us informed of the progress.
I do think there are times where you don稚 need steering. Just driving straight and not adjusting height will do it.

MossRoad · Feb 28, 2019

BobRip said:
I just wanted to say this is very interesting. Please keep us informed of the progress.
I do think there are times where you donç¨š need steering. Just driving straight and not adjusting height will do it.

Oh, I agree. However, how are you going to control turning on the steering each time you need it? Very complicated and expensive circuitry for sensing.