Electric fence advice

[oosik]

In the beginning - I ran an electric fence down one leg of my property. 1320 feet of electric fence.

I drove the one grounding rod deep. Around this rod I made a small dish in the ground. About foot and a half in diameter. Poured half a coffee can full of copper sulfate into this dish. Followed by a couple gallons of water. Best ground I've ever had. You can substitute salt if you can't find copper sulfate.

 

[ning]

hate to try to go down 6' and then abandon the rods as not likely to get them back out. I am thinking about filling a 55-gallon barrel with water and with a drip line to each rod.

Water definitely helps!

Given that ground rods are actually steel with a coating of copper, could you weld a chunk of metal on top that could be used to pull the rod out in the future?

I suspect that most ground rod installations are intended to be permanent (there's one in my meadow where a solar fence controller used to stand that I need to get out, or maybe I need to put a cairn around it, the old fence post is still there yet) so there's no point in them being sold with a bigger "top", but in this case an ounce of foresight could make it much easier to get a chain to grab it.

 

[ponytug]

Eddie, I have read that a joule a mile is a rule of thumb, but also read that much less than that is enough. My solar energizer is, I think, one joule. I will likely get started on putting this in in the next 2-3 days. I also realized that at one end of the (1400') run I have two nearby gates with 4" diameter galvanized steel pipe at each end of the gates with each pipe sunk into the ground at least three feet. I could attach ground wires to each of those - but I also put the posts in concrete so that may affect their effectiveness - though the very bottoms may be in direct contact with earth. I will have to check that out.

I will check out renting the hammer drill. For the fence posts themselves I use a battery powered drill with an auger bit where needed.

Concrete makes a pretty good ground actually. You can look up Ufer grounds if you are interested. I would definitely use them.

The trouble with rules of thumb is that they may not apply locally. And I think this is a case where they don't. With dry, rocky soil, I suspect that you will want much more than that based on my experience here. I recommend Premier1 fencing supplies for their solar chargers, or Gallagher. The latter were developed for and are used in Australia that has fairly similar soil conditions to Northern California. The other half of the rule of thumb is the resistance, or lack of it, in your electric fence. Tinned copper is excellent, stainless less so, but having lots of strands helps the pulses travel well and survive wear and tear.

Water definitely helps!

Given that ground rods are actually steel with a coating of copper, could you weld a chunk of metal on top that could be used to pull the rod out in the future?

I suspect that most ground rod installations are intended to be permanent (there's one in my meadow where a solar fence controller used to stand that I need to get out, or maybe I need to put a cairn around it, the old fence post is still there yet) so there's no point in them being sold with a bigger "top", but in this case an ounce of foresight could make it much easier to get a chain to grab it.

I've never found pulling ground rods that hard. Using a sledge hammer or a large monkey wrench to break the bond with soil is step one for me, and then either a lift a lift with a t-post puller or some other chain and lever has worked for me. In rocky soil, I rotate the rod if it jams against an unseen rock. I pull old posts with my FEL, but I have never attempted a ground rod. Of course, if you have time, wetting the soil in advance will help, if you don't have lots of rocks.

All the best,

Peter

 

[beowulf]

Thanks again guys. Heading out to start. Bought some galvanized grounding rods and connectors. But also have here some old half inch galvanized water pipe, and some half inch electrical conduit that I may use for these reasons: One - I can fill them with water from time to time and let them drain into the soil at the bottom, and as electricity travels on the surfaces - I will have more surface (inside and outside). Probably way over thinking, but hey, that is part of the fun.

 

[beowulf]

I thought I should update this post to let you all know what I did and how it worked out.

First, I put three grounding rods at the charger end of the fence and three at the far end of the fence (about a 1/4 mile run). Each rod went in about 4-5 feet and I added water and salt. I also added a grounding rod at the mid point - in about 5 feet. Anyway, with that set up and a 14 gauge electrified wire, I had no effective charge anywhere along the run. It was/is just too totally dry.

So, then I ran three parallel wires about 4 inches apart for the entire run. The top wire was charged, the middle was the ground and the lower wire was charged. I connected the top and bottom charged wires with insulated wires at about 4-5 points along the run - probably unnecessary. The idea was that if the cattle came close it was likely they would hit either one of the charged wires with the ground and get the shock. Usually, they approach with their nose. I put some spacers on the wires between the posts to keep the wires from coming in contact over distance. I then tested the charge at the far end of the run, and I had a very strong 9200-volt charge by touching either the top or bottom wire with the ground wire. (the tester I used - and like - is linked below). The charge has ranged from 7200 to 9900. The cattle apparently learned very quickly not to go near the fence as it has kept them away from the building site for the past month.

The charger is a solar American Farm Works, .15 joule, ten mile unit from TSC.

The tester is: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DCKG2SX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So, if the ground is too dry or you cannot ground the fence appropriately, a three wire with alternate ground and hot wires is an option.

 

[ponytug]

@beowulf thanks for the follow up!

All the best,

Peter

 

[ning]

I thought I should update this post to let you all know what I did and how it worked out.

First, I put three grounding rods at the charger end of the fence and three at the far end of the fence (about a 1/4 mile run). Each rod went in about 4-5 feet and I added water and salt. I also added a grounding rod at the mid point - in about 5 feet. Anyway, with that set up and a 14 gauge electrified wire, I had no effective charge anywhere along the run. It was/is just too totally dry.

So, then I ran three parallel wires about 4 inches apart for the entire run. The top wire was charged, the middle was the ground and the lower wire was charged. I connected the top and bottom charged wires with insulated wires at about 4-5 points along the run - probably unnecessary. The idea was that if the cattle came close it was likely they would hit either one of the charged wires with the ground and get the shock. Usually, they approach with their nose. I put some spacers on the wires between the posts to keep the wires from coming in contact over distance. I then tested the charge at the far end of the run, and I had a very strong 9200-volt charge by touching either the top or bottom wire with the ground wire. (the tester I used - and like - is linked below). The charge has ranged from 7200 to 9900. The cattle apparently learned very quickly not to go near the fence as it has kept them away from the building site for the past month.

The charger is a solar American Farm Works, .15 joule, ten mile unit from TSC.

The tester is: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DCKG2SX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So, if the ground is too dry or you cannot ground the fence appropriately, a three wire with alternate ground and hot wires is an option.

Good job!
Around here and likely most places in the west, the problem as you found isn't that the charger doesn't get a good ground it's that the cows don't; standing on bone-dry ground over dry grasses on dry hooves they may as well be wearing rubber-soled boots.

The alternating wire setup isn't ideal for shock because the current likely only travels a bit through skin and a bit of muscle instead of say from the shoulder all the way down to through the leg to the ground, but it's vastly better than nothing... and once it rains, you still have the full effect available.

 

[beowulf]

Good job!
Around here and likely most places in the west, the problem as you found isn't that the charger doesn't get a good ground it's that the cows don't; standing on bone-dry ground over dry grasses on dry hooves they may as well be wearing rubber-soled boots.

The alternating wire setup isn't ideal for shock because the current likely only travels a bit through skin and a bit of muscle instead of say from the shoulder all the way down to through the leg to the ground, but it's vastly better than nothing... and once it rains, you still have the full effect available.

Ning, while trying to figure this all out - i.e., keep the cows out of that area, I read that placing a ribbon of chicken wire (maybe 2' wide) along the e-fence line would be effective as well - just attach the chicken wire to the ground wire. Seems that would work, but not practical to place that much chicken wire. But I guess if you put it in a few strategic places, it could be a deterrent.

 

[RayIN]

FWIW; I had to string an electric fence over a creek many years ago, no way to drive a steel post in the creek that was 30'wide and no way to get the wire low enough so cattle couldn't walk under the wire.
I hung sections of galvanized roofing off the wire that came within 2' of the water, which worked quite well.
Dad had just bought a new bull and he was constantly looking for a way out of that pasture. I was watching him one day he was at the creek fence. He put his head down to push his way through; well he was standing in water when his head contacted the roofing panel.
I didn't know a bull could crap that far__.
That was the last time he tried to get out by walking in the creek.

 

[ning]

Ning, while trying to figure this all out - i.e., keep the cows out of that area, I read that placing a ribbon of chicken wire (maybe 2' wide) along the e-fence line would be effective as well - just attach the chicken wire to the ground wire. Seems that would work, but not practical to place that much chicken wire. But I guess if you put it in a few strategic places, it could be a deterrent.

That would work - but I'd be afraid that longer term someone's going to get stuck to the chicken wire. Probably not this year, but the stuff doesn't last real long in direct ground contact once things get muddy. We're dry as a bone usually here in the summer, but get very familiar with the other stuff in the winter...