Electric selector valve

[davesisk]

Correction

Hi folks:

Just wanted to post a correction on the cylinder fitting sizes here. Someone at PT had told me that all the 1/4" hoses on my machine had 1/4" NPT fittings. That appears to be incorrect. I just took an old hose over to the local Northern Tool to see if I could estimate what fittings I'll need to plumb in this selector valve (plus a cheaper source of replacement hoses), and I discovered that at least the hose I brought in has 1/4" JIC fittings, not 1/4" NPT fittings. The JIC fittings are smaller (actually, the 1/4" fitting measures 3/16" diameter...go figure). Anyway, I don't know if it's different on the newer 400's, but it looks like this the case with my old one.

Dave

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Correction

Dave: My better judgment tells me to wait until someone who knows something about hydraulic plumbing chimes in, but when have I ever paid attention to my "better judgment." /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

My vague recollection is that JIC identifies a type of 37 degree flare fitting for the end of a tube. A JIC fitting then can have 1/4" tapered NPT threads on the other end, to go into the ports in the pump, motor, cylinder, etc., (so you may have 1/4" NPT JIC fittings?) The alternative to NPT is some kind of o-ringed (non-tapered) connection (SAE, DIN?)

OK - someone who knows please chime in.

 

[davesisk]

Re: Correction

Hey Charlie:

From comparing fittings in Northern today, here's what I have deduced (and someone correct me if I've got this wrong!):

1) JIC and SAE (also called MSTOR in Northern's catalog) are the same size and thread, but JIC 37 has the highly tapered front end, while SAE has a flat front end and a rubber O-ring near the nut. One will actually fit the other thread-wise and size-wise, but they won't seal properly (I'd assume).
2) The same size NPT (also called NPSM in Northern's catalog if it's female) is actually a bigger diameter than either JIC or SAE thread, and NPT is slightly tapered so that it seals better as you tighten it, as I understand it.

So, in other words 1/4" JIC37 and 1/4" SAE (also called SAE 6, I *think*) are the same diameter and thread size, but a different shape (plus an O-ring with SAE), but a 1/4" NPT fitting is larger in diameter and a slightly tapered thread.

I *think* this fits my observations today...I agree though, let's see if a fitting expert emerges!

Dave

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Correction

Dave: That's my understanding, as well. I think that the SAE, DIN and NPT connections, however, are used to connect a fitting to a port, where the JIC and 45 degree flares are to connect a hose end or tube to the fitting. May be that both go for both ends, but I haven't seen them (yet). I understand there are a bunch of other fitting types and sizes, as well, just to keep us confused. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[davesisk]

Re: Correction

Charlie:

That seems to make sense.

I guess the "nice" thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from, eh? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Dave

 

[davesisk]

Sorry to revive this thread, but I think I finally have all the parts I need to hook this sucker up and test it. I've got the selector valve, the fittings for it, a 2x8 cylinder and fittings for it, the necessary quick-connects to be able to hook up and unhook the cylinder, bulk hose and the reuseable fittings to custom-make the hoses to the exact lengths I need, plus a good size electric SPDT switch and a piece of curved PVC pipe with flare at the end (I jammed a 1/2" nut into the flared end, and the plastic switch screws in almost perfect even though it's threads are different), 2 U-bolts to attach this switch contraption to the joystick, and the wiring to hook it all up. Also, I've cut, welded, drilled, and painted red a very simple L-shaped mount out of 1/4" flat stock, and bolted it to the top front of the tractor's "dash" (there simply wasn't enough clearance to attach it to the front, and I didn't want to weld or drill around the steering column because of the steering valve and hoses just underneath). And finally, I've painted the selector valve itself black, as the actual valve part is made of cast steel and it'll rust like crazy on the outside (although this shouldn't, in theory, effect it's operation since the inside is lubricated and protected by the hydraulic oil).

Whew! The hardest parts of this project so far were 1) getting all the right fittings, and 2) figuring out exactly where and how to mount the selector valve.

I plan to finish this part over this weekend. With any luck, by early Saturday afternoon, I'll be able to curl/uncurl the bucket by moving the joystick left/right, and open/close the extra cylinder (which will eventually actuate a grapple jaw) by pushing the button and moving the joystick left/right.

Charlie, thanks again for all your suggestions on this!

Next step will be to actually fabricate the grapple jaw and attach it to the existing bucket, assuming the hydraulics part of this project works as spotlessly as I'm hoping. Wish me luck here! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Dave

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> Wish me luck here!
</font>

Done

 

[MossRoad]

Sounds good. We'll be watching.

 

[davesisk]

OK, first minor setup. I decided to make up the necessary hoses when I got home Friday late afternoon. I just discovered that the bulk hose I have must not be the exact size intended for the reuseable fittings that I have. Hard as I could try, I couldn't get the sheath part of the fitting screwed on top of the hose...the hose diameter is just too big. I'll hit Carquest early tommorrow morning to see if they have the right size bulk hose that'll work with these fittings. I guess the back pocket solution here is to get Carquest to make up 6 hoses with permanent fittings (which completely defeats what I was trying to accomplish with the reuseable fittings). However, I'm determined to get this hooked up and tested this weekend, so if that's what it takes...then that's what it takes... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Dave

 

[davesisk]

Re: Electric selector valve - Done!

Whew who! The selector valve is installed and operating properly. I didn't encounter a single problem (ignoring my hose issue from an earlier post) getting everything hooked up and working. I ended up placing the button just below the knob on the joystick (at 6 o'clock), so you actually push it with kind of the heel of your thumb, but that seems to work really well, as you can still get a good grip on the joystick without pushing the button accidentally. I've discovered that I have a tendency to let go of the button before returning the joystick completely to neutral detent, so I see this is going to take a little getting used to.

Carquest didn't have the correct hose for the reuseable fittings that I bought, so I just had them make up 6 hoses (and make them a little longer than I thought I would need, since you can loop a hose that's too long but can't stretch a hose that's too short... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif). $140 and 2.5 hours later (yes, there's a reason I wanted to make the hoses myself! Carquest is expensive AND slow!), I had 6 professionally done hoses in my hot little hand. It took about two hours to hook all the hoses up, run the wiring and switch, etc. This was very well worth the effort.

Can't wait to build the grapple jaw now!

If anyone wants pics, let me know and I'll try to post some early tommorrow...

Dave