Electric service to barn

[fishpick]

6sunset6 - OK - so let me spit back what I think you are saying... From the main panel in the house - I run 4 wire out to the barn... 2 hot, one neutral, one ground... but in the house since neutral and ground are "the same" - they are basically connecting to the big blocks you use to hook big wires onto the small bars...
Then - out in the barn - the ground will go to the "ground" bar - where there will also be a copper line running in from the 2 ground rods... and all grounding lines for barn circuits run there... then the neutral runs to a "floating" and insulated from the panel neutral bar... where the neutrals run...
Attached to the post is a diagram - is that right?

mudcat - Code Basics confuses me - one sounds like one thing - the other something different... meaning - 3 wire vs 4 wire between house and barn... The first 250-32(b)(2) reference (Grounded neutral conductors serving another building from a main building) sounds like what I'm talking about... but the other one does too...

podagrower - The 100 A breaker is on the main in the house - the sub also has a 100A main - nothing in the sub can draw more than 100A - so it will never draw more than 100A on the main in the house.

DWW68 - overlooked - now - not so much - added to the list of things to do... and it also explains why the existing conduit the previous guy put in is snapped right off at the house!

 

[6sunset6]

You got it .

 

[6sunset6]

Oh yeah the confusing part is grounded conductor the neutral and grounding conductor the bare or green one.
I am not sure but I don't know if you can get 4 wire direct burial . I put my stuff in conduit deep probably 5' when all was said and done. I used triplex which is direct burial but cheaper than anything else and then added a ground . Ay least cheaper for me at the time. If you are using aluminum, and there is nothing wrong with it for mains, you need to use something called NoCORODE I think. It's a paste that you wire brush onto all suraces of the aluminum cable where it goes into the compression connectors. Keeps aluminum oxide from forming. Torque wrench is good to use also. I think there are labels on everything for the correct torque. Boy, it has been a long time since I have done this kind of work. One more post and I will have to head for the code book.

 

[whodat90]

FWIW, before they brought the power out to my barn I was backfeeding the panel through an extension cord from the house. (10ga 75' RV cord) Worked just fine till we put in two ground rods for the barn's panel, then it tripped the GFI the extension cord was plugged intoat the house. The GFI was sensitive enough to note the difference between the house ground and the ground rods for the barn. So yes, a ground is a ground the world round, but the GFI wasn't fooled.

 

[fishpick]

Gonna be doing this in a couple weeks - question - can I also run water in the same trench as electric in NYS - Wayne County?

And I'm guessing it needs to be below the 48" frost line...

SO - is the right way to put the water in the trench to drill a hole in the block foundation and feed the pipe through - then mortar back around the pipe?

 

[LBrown59]

*SO - is the right way to put the water in the trench to drill a hole in the block foundation and feed the pipe through - then mortar back around the pipe?

*Put something on each side of the wall and you will not have to tunnel under the wall if you ever need to repair or replace.
__________________
I just got done doing that very thing a few minutes ago on the garage wall that I had ran electric and phone lines through.

 

[Farwell]

Fishpick,
Putting anything else in the trench with the electric is not recommended and probably violates all of the codes, national and local with the possible exception of communication lines.
My frost line in Mid Michigan is 42 inches and is the recommended depth for water lines but I do not know what the depth for electric conduit, I usually bury my electric at around 24 inches.
This is what I have understood the national code to say, if you run the three wires to your barn it is okay, but the ground and neutral are bonded in the barn box and ground rods are necessary. If this is the way you wire your barn you will want to avoid anything that may be attached to the house grounding system, telephone lines, cable TV lines, water lines, etc.

 

[fishpick]

if you run the three wires to your barn it is okay, but the ground and neutral are bonded in the barn box and ground rods are necessary.

Here's what I'm planning - as per this discussion...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...1d1180903741-electric-service-barn-wiring.jpg

4 wires - floating neutral in the barn box.

Just trying to figure out of I can get the water out there with the electric too!

 

[Savagepike]

I would highly recommend that if you're powering the barn off of your existing house service, you upgrade to a 320amp service to be safe. You can get this done for free (at least where I live) if you do the following... Go ahead and run cable out to your barn like you would do anyway. Just make sure you're not going to have voltage drop problems with the length/cable size, (buried cable doesn't handle as many amps as open or exposed does). Get everything in your barn wired up and completed. Then call your local electric utility and tell them that due to your barn now having power (key term: welders), your existing service in no longer adequate. This will most likely get you a free service upgrade and depending on your situation, an upgraded transformer to carry the additional current and prevent flicker.

 

[Farwell]

Fishpick,
The way you described your wiring plan is the recommended way.
I do not recommend putting water in the same trench as the electrical and I doubt that anyone else will.