Electrical help needed

[PineRidge]

It's a 1 hp motor.

I have considered all kinds of crazy ideas to get power down to the river.
The power company is using what looks like steel cable for high voltage transmission lines.
So why can't I do the same thing.
Get some steel cable and run it thru PVC pipe underground for most of the distance.
I have also considered barbless fence wire. And rebar.
All are much cheaper than copper wire. Or aluminum wire.

I have also considered building a big gazebo down near the river
and let the power company run wire down there and place a meter.
Then it would only be less than 200 feet to the river.
The pump has a 50 foot power cord on it.
So I would only need about 150 feet of wire or extension cord.
Wouldn't a big pavilion type gazebo look great down in the corner of the
yard next to that big walnut tree at the curve in the road.
http://web.infoave.net/~poohbear2767/panorama.htm (second picture down, left side)
Of course then there is the cost of the gazebo and all that 3inch pvc conduit.

Anybody got any better ideas.

Pooh Bear

I respectfully suggest that if you don't understand electricity and associated wiring that you not go there period. Forget steel and rebar. And any circuit that runs to water needs to be protected with a GFCI regardless. This is for your protection so you don't get electrocuted.

 

[Pooh_Bear]

I respectfully suggest that if you don't understand electricity and associated wiring that you not go there period. Forget steel and rebar. And any circuit that runs to water needs to be protected with a GFCI regardless. This is for your protection so you don't get electrocuted.

I appreciate your suggestion. I have a fairly good knowledge of electricity.
What I know about the NEC wouldn't fill a thimble.
Safety is a primary concern.
I do know that iron and steel will conduct electricity.
The calculations show that 1/2 inch rebar would work nicely.
But alas, that is still too expensive to run that far.
Can't find any data on resistivity of steel cable or barbwire fence.
Did I mention that all of these were crazy ideas?
I may have fluff for brains but I'm still smarter than the average bear.
I am also considering alternatives that don't involve electricity.
Check the implements forum for those ideas.

Pooh Bear

 

[BobRip]

The overhead stuff is aluminum with steel core wire (I believe).

Bob Rip

 

[Pooh_Bear]

Is that the stuff from the transformer to the meter,
or is that the higher voltage transmission lines.
We had a tree fall across some transmission lines out the road from us last year.
I went out and watched as they cleaned up the mess.
The cable looked like 1 inch thick steel rope. No insulation.
I asked one of the workers if that was normal to not have insulation on electric
carrying wire and he said yes. Only the wire from the transformer to the meter was insulated.
Sounded strange to me but I didn't question it.
If they can use steel rope to feed whole neighborhoods
then why can't I use it to feed one 1hp motor.

Called about 10-2 with ground romex this morning.
250 foot roll was approx $130.
500 feet of 6-2 wire was approx $1100.

I'm liking the PTO pump option better and better.

Pooh Bear

 

[VinnieNC]

Pooh,

I have been following your thread on getting water from your creek to your house via electric pump, PTO sprayer pump, etc. I feel your pain on not wanting to spend the $$$. Other that hauling it a bucket at a time, you are going to have a certain expense to do it safely AND reliably.

Since you are thinking PTO powered, might I suggest a larger PTO pump? I am thinking of the type used to irigate from farm ponds. You can find them a farm auctions, ebay, etc. I would think you could run your PTO slower than 540 if the output is too high.

Black PE pipe (hose?) on the 500 foot rolls is fairly cheap. You could run it on top of the ground or bury it and leave the ends out for connections when needed.

As another option, the generator idea may be a good one too. I feel confident you could use the generator for more than just the pump from time to time.

I am interested to hear what you decide on.

-Vinnie

 

[Bill_C]

The high-voltage lines are not steel, they are aluminum or aluminum with a steel core. The steel core is used for long-span runs solely to give the wire some strength to handle its own weight. The aluminum is tightly clad to the iron.

Using steel or iron as a conductor is a lousy idea. First, the resistance of steel or iron is much greater than that of copper or aluminum. Much, much greater. Sure, it conducts, but not very well. The increased resistance means a high voltage drop, so you lose a lot of your power (in the form of heat in the steel conductor)...Very inefficient. A second problem is the tendency for steel and iron to rust, particularly at connections. Even a tiny film of rust will not conduct electricity. A third problem, sorta related to rust, is the galvanic reaction of iron. When electrical current is passed through iron, it becomes a cathode (I believe it becomes the cathode, perhaps the anode, my memory's fuzzy) if there's any moisture or other metals in the vicinity. This tends to make the iron or steel disappear quite rapidly. Fourth, it would seem to me that it would be almost impossible to completely, safely insulate the iron or steel.

NEC Code, Section 110-5 says "Conductors normally used to carry current shall be of copper unless otherwise provided in this Code". Aluminum conductors are permitted in Article 310. Section 110-14 prohibits dissimilar metals for electrical connections unless specifically identified for the purpose and conditions of use.

 

[Pooh_Bear]

Yes, the resistance of iron is very high.
I was imagining connecting sections of rebar and running it thru PVC pipe.
I'm not going to do it. But it was an intriguing idea.

I keep looking for PTO pumps. Considered a Hypro pump.
I can find those on ebay for cheap. But not high volume water flow.
Too much gas usage for too little output.
I have been looking for other pumps. But they have been hard to find.
And what I do find is out of my price range.

I like the generator idea the best so far. I could use it for other stuff too.

I already have the 500 feet of 1 inch black poly pipe.

Pooh Bear

 

[Farwell]

PoohBear,
It sounds like you are going to use the pump a lot more than I originally understood and I did not know that you were using a 1hp motor. #10 wire will not do what you want.
A generator is probably going to be more than you want to spend but a gas or diesel driven pump may be less expensive than the size wire you will need and you can find them used or maybe get a pto driven pump that will work.
Farwell

 

[Bill_C]

How about getting an air-operated pump instead? You might be able to find a diapragm pump on Ebay (some folks call these a huff-and-puff pump, cause that's what they sound like).

It'd be a lot cheaper to run a second PVC line for the air than it would be to wire up heavy-gauge wire. Of course, you need an air compressor but I'm guessing you already have one.

 

[Keoke]

It's a 1 hp motor.

I have considered all kinds of crazy ideas to get power down to the river.
The power company is using what looks like steel cable for high voltage transmission lines.
So why can't I do the same thing.
Get some steel cable and run it thru PVC pipe underground for most of the distance.
I have also considered barbless fence wire. And rebar.
All are much cheaper than copper wire. Or aluminum wire.

I have also considered building a big gazebo down near the river
and let the power company run wire down there and place a meter.
Then it would only be less than 200 feet to the river.
The pump has a 50 foot power cord on it.
So I would only need about 150 feet of wire or extension cord.
Wouldn't a big pavilion type gazebo look great down in the corner of the
yard next to that big walnut tree at the curve in the road.
http://web.infoave.net/~poohbear2767/panorama.htm (second picture down, left side)
Of course then there is the cost of the gazebo and all that 3inch pvc conduit.

Anybody got any better ideas.

Pooh Bear

Pooh Bear, IF your local electrical code permits, big if here, consider running two 10 gauge UF (direct burial cables) in parallel with each other. Solder wires together at both ends for easier placement under screws and clear identification. This is not the best way to go but may be the cheapest IF allowed. The amp capacity of these double-up conductors will be in line with what you need at the pump. If you want 110v at the gazebo don't forget to run the 3rd wire (white neutral) as well. Also, it may be a good idea to sink a grounding rod at the pump location since you have a long run from your box.

cheers,
keoke