electrical issues.

[medic0648]

My mom bought a house and property in TX a few years ago and moved in. Shortly after she did she had a portable shed moved. The electric service to it was cut at the shed to move it, but is fed from a 200amp breaker that appears to be fed by a direct drop from the meter box on the house. The ac condenser, laundry room, and well pump are also powered off this breaker via a box with a 60 and 40 amp breaker. The 1st and biggest issue is we can't cut power to the former shed line and not loose critical services (water amd cooling.) I noticed the issue last weekend and took the outdoor box off the shed and used it to protect us and the animals from the effectively bare ends of the line. When funds eventually allow she plans to extend the power to the shed's new location. With this in mind we're wanting to put a more permanent fix that will give us safe access to the electricity there that could eventually be extended to the shed at a future date.

 

[medic0648]

The 2nd issue is that off the 200amp breaker they directly took the power for the shed with al wire and fed the breakers for the ac, well, and laundry room with copper both connected together using the same lug for the 2 hots. Everything I've learned and been taught about electricity is copper and aluminium wire don't go together. I'm looking for a safe fix to this issue short of replacing 1 or both lines fed off the breaker.

 

[ThomasH]

The splitting of the line at the meter box would only be legal if there is a disconnect for both at the meter. You need to have a licensed electrician look this over and make sure that the service is installed correctly and the main system grounds are proper, so that the electrical is safe and will not possibly harm someone.

 

[Qapla]

pictures would help

 

[ThomasH]

Aluminum and copper have to be clamped in seperate sections of a split bolt connector or use use proper lugs, and anti-corrosive paste (commonly called no-ox). They can not be safely clamped together in one lug, as the aluminum wire will heat and cool and the connection will get loose and cause a fire when put under a load.

 

[medic0648]

I'll try amd get pics when I can get over there. I'm still trying to find a decent electrician in the area. She had 2 look over the house to give estimates on fixing other issues. Neither cought the copper al issue and both looked in the box.

 

[medic0648]

This is the feed in from the meter to the 200amp breaker and then the 2 hot connections on the breaker with copper and al put together. The ground is the same. Both wires are #4 which on the al i dont think is enough for the 200 amps if it got the full draw for some reason. I'm trying to figure out what I can do to correct the issue for now. The power wouldn't be connected to the house if everything wasn't right in the meter box itself. The power company inspects the connections before installing the meter and won't install it if they don't meet code. Beyond that point they don't care though. Eventually we want to put 1 box out there that feeds the 3 circuts, but don't have the money for it right now. The other 2 circuts are on another box under this 1.

 

[mfreund]

You need a electrician, he will do it right. He will be expensive, but if your house burned and the insurance denied the claim because the connections did not meet code, he suddenly looks cheap.

 

[medic0648]

Ya. Like I said before, trying to find a decent electrician in the area and the money for it. My mom is on a fixed income and I'm trying to catch up on bills after being mostly unemployed for 1.5yrs and only been steadily working as a temp for 3.5 months the money isn't there yet.

 

[BeezFun]

If the former shed that was fed by the Al wire doesn't exist anymore, why can't you just remove the Al wires and leave the copper wires as the only thing connected to the 200A breaker?

 

[medic0648]

The shed was moved due to very poor positioning in relation to the driveway. Eventually the power is going to be extended out to the shed's new location when funds allow. We'd like to be able to have electric access where it is currently cut off for when something gets bent/broken instead of me using a plug out front that the previous owner extended off the 30amp well feed or dragging equipment over 45min home to fix it on a properly wired plug.

 

[BeezFun]

The shed was moved due to very poor positioning in relation to the driveway. Eventually the power is going to be extended out to the shed's new location when funds allow. We'd like to be able to have electric access where it is currently cut off for when something gets bent/broken instead of me using a plug out front that the previous owner extended off the 30amp well feed or dragging equipment over 45min home to fix it on a properly wired plug.

I need a diagram, I don't understand what's connected to what. I imagined there's wires hanging from a tree where the old shed used to be, but you are talking about connecting to them. What is on the end of the Al wire that used to terminate in the shed that got moved?

 

[Oliver1655]

Mount a 100 - 125 amp rain tight box with a main breaker next to the box under the meter. Take the aluminum wire from the shed out of the lugs of the box under the meter. Use #2 copper wire to go from the lugs you removed the aluminum wire from to the main breaker of the new box you installed. You will need to bond the 2 boxes together. This will take care of the copper/aluminum in the same lug & provide for quick disconnect of power at the pole to the shed when it is reconnected for emergencies. If you want to add another ground rod for the new box, use a #10 or larger bare copper wire to connect the new box & ground rod.

Then add the appropriate sized breaker for the aluminum wire to the new box & your are ready to connect the aluminum wire to it when it is needed. You might consider mounting an outlet below the new box for convenience.

 

[medic0648]

They're underground rated #4 wire run underground in conduit. I cut the conduit back and temporarily put them in an outdoor rated box to protect people and the animals.

 

[ThomasH]

Wow - those lugs in the pictures look pretty bad. I would immediately get some no-ox from the closest electrical supply or big box store, pull the meter, and clean the lugs and cables. Then strip back enough insulation (probably 1") to mount a split bolt connector, and apply no-ox to the aluminum, and mount it to the copper wire. Then wrap the connections with electrical tape, and re-tighten the previously corroded lugs to 50 or so ft-pounds with the copper only in the lug. By doing so, you have fixed a possible impending fire due to corrosion, which is looks pretty bad in the picture.

None of the wiring appears to be suitable for a 200 amp service unless I am misjudging the picture. As long as the actual ampacity ratings of the wire itself are not exceeded (100 or so amps) then you should be ok for a while, assuming that your system ground is functioning. Considering the way the rest of the wiring has been handled, I would be examining the ground, taking some pictures, and posting that next.

Good luck!

 

[medic0648]

That isn't corrosion. That's the remnants of mud dobber nests. I just haven't cleaned all the dirt off yet. They will be clean once I actually set to correcting the issues. The copper wire is just barely big enough for the 100 amps capacity being pulled through it.

 

[ThomasH]

Are you saying that the lug is not corroded? Sure looks that way in the picture, but I was also thinking about the aluminum wire which looks heavily oxidized.

The copper wire would only be a few inches long at the point of my suggested split bolt connection. A couple of inches of wire will carry a lot more than you might think without overheating. However, for safety's sake the main breaker in the panel shouldn't be much higher than the service wire capacity. What size wire is it, and how long a run to the house panel?

 

[medic0648]

This isn't even connected to the house pannel other than possibly sharing the lug at the meter. I had a neighbor who recently retired as an electrician come over this morning for his reccomendations both temporary and permanent fixes. Temporary would be a brass connector that can be inserted into the lug with the copper after cleaning the lugs and wires throughly and applying "no-ox" to the al wires. When we moved in both lugs had mud dobber nests on them which is most of what you are seeing. There is a little corrosion on the lugs themselves. The al wire is ok for 50amps at 100% duty, so for now (after cleaning and prepping everything) it will be good as an access point for welding etc. since my portable welder only needs 38 amps peak surge and the compressor/plasma cutter 47 amps peak surge combined.

 

[medic0648]

The mostly permanent fix will include a 200amp breaker box combining the 200 amp and 100 amp box below it into 1 with a 100amp breaker to the shed's new location via the current termination point with new properly sized wire not sharing lugs with other types of wire. we'd eventually like to put a bigger box inside and combine everything into 1, but that's another massive can of worms with only copper wiring involved.