Electricity Price Increases

[EscapedSuburbia]

I'm not a NIMBY. I've got no complaint about industry building on appropriately zoned land if they bring jobs, tax revenue, and don't raise my electricity rates. But in our case we've got a data center being built a few miles from my house. It took over 1000 acres of farm land out of production, they're running water pipes through over 100 family's yards and taking out several hundred mature trees, us tax payers are funding the rerouting of a major state highway, they're getting big tax breaks, and they're going to use so much electricity our rates will have to go up. They're predicting the data center will create 50 jobs. All that for 50 jobs.

I want to see the US win the AI arms race. But the companies that are benefiting need to pay for it. It needs to be appropriately taxed and they need to pay for all the infrastructure and electricity rate increases. And they need to do it near an easy source of cooling water - not tear up 100 family yards to pipe it in. The way it's being done the taxpayers are funding it and homeowners are paying for the utility increases. All to create 50 jobs and put billions in Mark Zuckerberg's pockets.

 

[rontaki]

I'm not a NIMBY. I've got no complaint about industry building on appropriately zoned land if they bring jobs, tax revenue, and don't raise my electricity rates. But in our case we've got a data center being built a few miles from my house. It took over 1000 acres of farm land out of production, they're running water pipes through over 100 family's yards and taking out several hundred mature trees, us tax payers are funding the rerouting of a major state highway, they're getting big tax breaks, and they're going to use so much electricity our rates will have to go up. They're predicting the data center will create 50 jobs. All that for 50 jobs.

I want to see the US win the AI arms race. But the companies that are benefiting need to pay for it. It needs to be appropriately taxed and they need to pay for all the infrastructure and electricity rate increases. And they need to do it near an easy source of cooling water - not tear up 100 family yards to pipe it in. The way it's being done the taxpayers are funding it and homeowners are paying for the utility increases. All to create 50 jobs and put billions in Mark Zuckerberg's pockets.

Your Location?

 

[EscapedSuburbia]

Your Location?

Indiana. Lots of surrounding communities aren't allowing data centers. The locals here never wanted it either and spoke up about it, but either the local officials are getting something out of it or they're being bulldozed over by the state. There's a huge lack of transparency. My wife stopped at the local paper to run an ad and while there asked a reporter how to get information on it and was told there's none to be had - the state and local governments are completely shutting out the public. Lots of farm land and houses lost to eminent domain. That's another thing that makes me angry - the government kicking people off their land to hand it to corporations.

 

[WinterDeere]

Lots of surrounding communities aren't allowing data centers.

I expect we are going to see more and more of this, and I have to wonder how the internet giants are going to respond, when the sites they require to provide desired services are just not allowed.

"No Netflix for you!!!"



If I were a Bezos or Sarandos, I'd probably just start by denying service to anyone living within an exclusion zone. That'd probably have a way of swinging votes, awfully quick.

 

[Jstpssng]

Funny thing is, who all gets input.

Where I grew up after dad retired, they built a nice, new coal plant.

The community has always been fine with it. A few years back, they wanted to upgrade and expand it. Community was behind that, too. Then a neighboring state got a judge to shutter the improvements.

Lots of people would say, sure, but the pollution may drift into their state, or whatever.

The same is true with these huge power-sucking centers, but since the generation of the power happens elsewhere, out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

It all comes back to a short-sighted view (on 'both' sides) about how and where we generate and transmit power in the US. We need about 3X the amount of sustainable (not wind or solar) power generation than we have in order to meet future needs. Until that happens, non of thia other stuff should see the light of day.

Here in Maine there is a big push to get rid of all of the dams so that the rivers can run free. Meanwhile there is a massive powerline project to bring "green" energy from Quebec Hydro to Massachusetts.
Question; why is hydro "Green" from Canada but evil from Maine?

 

[Eagle1]

Just like coal is good in China but verboten here. We do not care if it is not near us. Data Center in South Dakota good, but not in other places. Wind farms are great as long as you can not see/hear them from your house/yard. Farms are only good if they are far away from the burbs, and so one.... We want as long as others suffer.
Anyone really think manufacturing is really a lot cleaner and that we did not ship the dirt to other countries?

 

[EscapedSuburbia]

I expect we are going to see more and more of this, and I have to wonder how the internet giants are going to respond, when the sites they require to provide desired services are just not allowed.

"No Netflix for you!!!"

View attachment 4562421

If I were a Bezos or Sarandos, I'd probably just start by denying service to anyone living within an exclusion zone. That'd probably have a way of swinging votes, awfully quick.

It wouldn't swing my vote. I can live without the cesspool that is Facebook and I can go to Walmart for the same Chinese crap that comes from Amazon. But like I said, I want the US to win the AI arms race. But do it in a smart way. If they need to be cooled to the tune of 5 million gallons a day then build them somewhere cold with a lot of water. Like on one of the Great Lakes or upper Wisconsin/Minnesota. Don't put them somewhere that water needs to be piped in from an artificial reservoir 50 miles away that also provides drinking water for a large metropolitan area. And Bezos can pay fair market value for the land and all the infrastructure improvements - he's not going to be eating cat food any time soon.

 

[WinterDeere]

It wouldn't swing my vote. I can live without the cesspool that is Facebook and I can go to Walmart for the same Chinese crap that comes from Amazon. But like I said, I want the US to win the AI arms race. But do it in a smart way. If they need to be cooled to the tune of 5 million gallons a day then build them somewhere cold with a lot of water. Like on one of the Great Lakes or upper Wisconsin/Minnesota. Don't put them somewhere that water needs to be piped in from an artificial reservoir 50 miles away that also provides drinking water for a large metropolitan area. And Bezos can pay fair market value for the land and all the infrastructure improvements - he's not going to be eating cat food any time soon.

Agreed. This site is as close as I come to social media, but I do consume an awful lot of Amazon and Netflix! I also rely on internet connectivity for my business, and AI for helping with my daily work.

 

[Jstpssng]

Just like coal is good in China but verboten here.

I can understand this. How can we be green, if we can't import cheap electric cars?

 

[bigtiller]

It wouldn't swing my vote. I can live without the cesspool that is Facebook and I can go to Walmart for the same Chinese crap that comes from Amazon. But like I said, I want the US to win the AI arms race. But do it in a smart way. If they need to be cooled to the tune of 5 million gallons a day then build them somewhere cold with a lot of water. Like on one of the Great Lakes or upper Wisconsin/Minnesota. Don't put them somewhere that water needs to be piped in from an artificial reservoir 50 miles away that also provides drinking water for a large metropolitan area. And Bezos can pay fair market value for the land and all the infrastructure improvements - he's not going to be eating cat food any time soon.

AND they should pay their fair share of taxes.
Every state, county, and local governments will bid for the chance to give them a sweetheart deal to lower their taxes with incentives to build in their location.