Buying Advice Elevation and the need for a turbo?

crazyal · Jul 18, 2019

I would say your test with your neighbor's tractor was a good start but was short on what you need to know. If possible I would ask if he could come over and repeat the test while you watch. Not knowing the tractor and not wanting to do damage most likely left you with the wrong impression. It's very possible that the tractor didn't have the power needed but usually I see my tires spin long before I run out of power. Grading scrapers usually aren't too power hungry.

I wouldn't be afraid of a turbo. There's a few simple precautions that you should take but they will last a lifetime. Don't shut the engine off after running it at high RPMs immediately and when working the engine hard let it idle for a minute or so to let the oil cool back down before shutting it off.

I pull an 72" GS behind my 45hp tractor (at 1000ft). I have a steep driveway. I have ag tires so they start to dig if they spin so I have to watch how much material I try to pull back up the hill. As I make repeated passes the gravel is loosened up so spinning tires is almost always an issue so I almost always have the diff lock engaged. 45hp should be more than enough for the task you are talking about. Many do it with much less. the 30hp ism tractor seams to be the sweat spot for the longest time for CUTs and only recently has larger HP tractors seam to have found plenty of buyers. Most people find that having extra HP is a good thing so I would pick the size you feel is right them get the most HP your budget will allow. HP is the one thing that you can't add after the fact.

chriswheeler · Jul 18, 2019

Moving to Nevada and owning 3 compact diesel tractors that operated @4875 feet, I can say that elevation enters in to the contest way less than one might imagine. What I'm saying after operating these 3 tractors is that the transmission, weight of the tractor and good tires enter into it to gain traction and being able to engage the ground. No matter how much HP you have, if you spin the tires you will be unable to use it all. I was not pulling a 8' disc harrow or a hay bailer. Driving a 6' front end loader bucket into a pile to take a full bite of product is a good example. With my 970 and 4wd engaged running good tires ( R1) My little 33 hp. motor could still spin the tires filling the front loader bucket. I could have mounted a Cat 3512 engine in that tractor and not have improved it's performance with the extra 1000 hp. More effective would be to spend your money on a larger machine if you need to draw larger things.
Chris

finn1 · Jul 18, 2019

chriswheeler said:
Moving to Nevada and owning 3 compact diesel tractors that operated @4875 feet, I can say that elevation enters in to the contest way less than one might imagine. What I'm saying after operating these 3 tractors is that the transmission, weight of the tractor and good tires enter into it to gain traction and being able to engage the ground. No matter how much HP you have, if you spin the tires you will be unable to use it all. I was not pulling a 8' disc harrow or a hay bailer. Driving a 6' front end loader bucket into a pile to take a full bite of product is a good example. With my 970 and 4wd engaged running good tires ( R1) My little 33 hp. motor could still spin the tires filling the front loader bucket. I could have mounted a Cat 3512 engine in that tractor and not have improved it's performance with the extra 1000 hp. More effective would be to spend your money on a larger machine if you need to draw larger things.
Chris

I tend to agree. 7500’ might be a different story, though.

Many of these CUT tractors are traction limited, not horsepower limited.

KNPV PSD · Jul 18, 2019

chriswheeler said:
Moving to Nevada and owning 3 compact diesel tractors that operated @4875 feet, I can say that elevation enters in to the contest way less than one might imagine. What I'm saying after operating these 3 tractors is that the transmission, weight of the tractor and good tires enter into it to gain traction and being able to engage the ground. No matter how much HP you have, if you spin the tires you will be unable to use it all. I was not pulling a 8' disc harrow or a hay bailer. Driving a 6' front end loader bucket into a pile to take a full bite of product is a good example. With my 970 and 4wd engaged running good tires ( R1) My little 33 hp. motor could still spin the tires filling the front loader bucket. I could have mounted a Cat 3512 engine in that tractor and not have improved it's performance with the extra 1000 hp. More effective would be to spend your money on a larger machine if you need to draw larger things.
Chris

crazyal said:
I would say your test with your neighbor's tractor was a good start but was short on what you need to know. If possible I would ask if he could come over and repeat the test while you watch. Not knowing the tractor and not wanting to do damage most likely left you with the wrong impression. It's very possible that the tractor didn't have the power needed but usually I see my tires spin long before I run out of power. Grading scrapers usually aren't too power hungry.

I wouldn't be afraid of a turbo. There's a few simple precautions that you should take but they will last a lifetime. Don't shut the engine off after running it at high RPMs immediately and when working the engine hard let it idle for a minute or so to let the oil cool back down before shutting it off.

I pull an 72" GS behind my 45hp tractor (at 1000ft). I have a steep driveway. I have ag tires so they start to dig if they spin so I have to watch how much material I try to pull back up the hill. As I make repeated passes the gravel is loosened up so spinning tires is almost always an issue so I almost always have the diff lock engaged. 45hp should be more than enough for the task you are talking about. Many do it with much less. the 30hp ism tractor seams to be the sweat spot for the longest time for CUTs and only recently has larger HP tractors seam to have found plenty of buyers. Most people find that having extra HP is a good thing so I would pick the size you feel is right them get the most HP your budget will allow. HP is the one thing that you can't add after the fact.

No concerns with a turbo, as a matter of fact I'd prefer to have one. I'm currently daily driving a 2004.5 Ram 3500 with 300k on the 5.9 cummins.

I just don't want to have to make the tractor size/class jump up to get the turbo if it will cause me problems with being able to work in my forest if I don't need to.

Thanks for all the input and advice! Keep it coming as it all helps.

chriswheeler · Jul 20, 2019

A turbo is good in any conditions, but I'm guessing you are asking if it's necessary ?? And the answer is somewhere around what do you intend to do with it. Here is where a dealer can help with that. Putting the required power to the ground is what you are after I'm guessing. Although a turbo sure would help with that, the necessary traction for your implements it what to look for. I know from spinning my tires in some conditions, that I have enough HP and torque. Area where I could improve is traction. Traction is a product of weight and HP together. Get a tractor that has enough weight to put it to the ground.
Chris

bitternut · Jul 21, 2019

I have a good friend that is a retired diesel mechanic and service manager for a populer diesel engine manufacturer. When I was shopping for a tractor I asked him his opinion on getting either a non turbo John Deere 5210 or the turbo model 5310 that has 10 more HP. Since my tractor is not located near my home and would be sitting in the barn for a month or more every winter he advised me to not get a turbo. He thought there was a good chance of the turbo seizing up from infrequent use. He suggested bumping up from the 3 cyl engine to the 5410 which came with a non turbo 4 cyl engine if I needed more HP. I have been very happy with my choice of the 3 cyl 5210. Its got all the power I need and sips fuel.

If I had the tractor and my woods closer to my home I most likely would have purchased the turbo. I mean really, who doesen't want more horse power.

Agvg · Jul 22, 2019

I have never ever heard any one that had theyr turbo seized by letting it sitting for a month... Even years should not be an issue.

bitternut · Jul 22, 2019

Well Agvg you may never have heard of nonuse causing a turbo problem but Western Turbo has. They list non use as the second leading cause for failure of turbo's. Check it out Common Problems Turbochargers | Western Turbo Diesel & Fuel Injection.

Here are some attributes that lead to damage due to insufficient oil supply;

Re-fitting a turbocharger without adequate priming
Long periods of non-use
Broken or restricted oil feed pipe
Low engine oil pressure due to malfunctioning lubrication system
Low or no oil in sump
The use of sealants, which can restrict the oil flow
Not priming a replacement oil filter with new oil. If this cannot be done, then crank the engine with no fuel to establish oil pressure.
Do not exceed idle conditions until oil pressure is established

Agvg · Jul 22, 2019

Can't be a common problem, never heard about it and I should as it turbos on almost everything on the road here from small cars to of course big trucks and equipment. Turboes are very simple, two bronze bushings and a axle, what on earth could size that in matter of months? Excluding water dripping in to the engine from the exhaust.