Engaging MX6 on a JD 4520 using the E-PTO

[eepete]

Last fall I tried to use my MX6 with the E-PTO engaged. 1st time I stalled the tractor. So then I kicked it in at 1600 RPM and about stalled it, had a hard time spinning up, once it got up to speed everything was shaking. Cut it off, went back to "normal" PTO.

Had an idea today. I had the E-PTO off, engaged the mower PTO, took the RPM up to the right speed. Then I shut off the PTO, idles down the the E-PTO speed (1750 rmp-ish) and tried to pull up on the E-PTO shift lever. The idea was to have the MX6 spinning a bit when I engage the PTO. Well, I could not pull up on the E-PTO shift lever for the life of me. While I was sitting and thinking, the MX6 was spinning down. Pulled up on the E-PTO shifter again, it engaged. Engaged the PTO and it spun up. Lots of shaking, but as soon as it start to drive it's OK. Must just be some odd mechanical resonance in the system. I chalk all this up to my learning curve on the tractor and mower.

Later on, I tried the E-PTO with the engine at the correct E-PTO RPM. It bogged down to 600 RPM, almost stalled, but spun it up OK.

So my question is: Should this idea of spin up on normal PTO, cut of the PTO, shift to E-PTO, then engage the PTO work? Is there a hazard to shifting the gears when the attachment is still spinning (which might be why it was hard to shift) ? Or should I just stop worrying and engage the MX6 from a dead stop with the E-PTO and RPM at the 1750 speed and realize that bogging the tractor down to 600 RPM for this won't hurt anything ?

This was more or less using the MX6 as a lawn mower on areas that I had already mowed when the spring grass was thick. Fuel consumption was a bit better. Took it into a section with taller grass, the motion match did it's thing and it was OK.

Pete

 

[ddivinia]

By E-PTO I assume you are meaning the economy PTO. My 4520 does not have the economy PTO but my 5525 does. You do not want to change modes or even attempt it when any of the PTO stuff is spinning.

The MX-6 is not some lightweight implement - I would not run it with the epto.

D.

 

[jenkinsph]

Pete,
The MX6 takes alot of torque to start turning as you probably guessed. I have used the epto in thin easy to cut stuff but agree with Darin for the most part. My 673 tiller though takes much less to start turning and the epto works well when tilling 4 inches deep. Probably would work with a lighter mass rfm too. Just have to pick the right time to use the epto where it works for you. I use it for turning my hypro pump, tiller and small chipper. I use the normal setting for deep tilling and most brush cutting.

 

[beenthere]

Engaged the PTO and it spun up. Lots of shaking, but as soon as it start to drive it's OK. Must just be some odd mechanical resonance in the system. I chalk all this up to my learning curve on the tractor and mower.

About the shaking...it is possible (happens with my 5' cutter) that a cutting blade is folded back and not extended in normal cutting mode. Adds some serious shake. I just run the rpm up and it corrects itself. Sometimes the blade gets in that position from hitting an object, or can happen when stopping the cutter with the brake.

 

[eepete]

"You do not want to change modes or even attempt it when any of the PTO stuff is spinning"

That's the technical side I was looking for. Am guessing it's a very simple gear box and if stuff is spinning that would be bad. Thanks Darin .

Steve, this is for already cut areas that are somewhere between a pasture and a lawn with 4" grass. The areas are mostly flat. If it's heavy cutting or on a slope, I'll be in normal PTO mode. Other than my little test in thicker grass, this is only for trimming down these transitional areas between the lawn around the house and the hay fields.

beenthere, I've done that. The last time it did that I reved up the engine and it got happy. I did check underneath to be sure the blades weren't too free.

Part of why I tried this is because on the 4520, when in E-PTO the horse power rating is 32 HP. So for the 6' MX6 which has a minimum HP rating of 30 HP it should work with very light cutting of grass only. Now I know not to mess with the shifting of the E-PTO unless everything is still. Just wanted to be sure that dragging the engine down to 600 RPM briefly during spin up was OK for the engine and PTO clutch and get any other thoughts you guys had.

tnx !

Pete

 

[AGGIE00]

I use 540E with my MX8 3pt with no stall at idle. A 6' mower is not that hard to turn. Engage it slower.

 

[ddivinia]

I use 540E with my MX8 3pt with no stall at idle. A 6' mower is not that hard to turn. Engage it slower.

Which tractor are you using?

4520 PTO engagement is electric - can't do it slow. On or off

D.

 

[AGGIE00]

Which tractor are you using?

4520 PTO engagement is electric - can't do it slow. On or off

D.

Sorry, mine is the 5083e. Wish it was electronic.

 

[ddivinia]

Sorry, mine is the 5083e. Wish it was electronic.

Look at the problems you would be having if you didn't have old school stuff/.

My 5525 is old school and my 4520 is new school. For post hole digger work, the 4520 with the electronic PTO is pretty hard to beat.

D.

 

[AGGIE00]

Look at the problems you would be having if you didn't have old school stuff/.

My 5525 is old school and my 4520 is new school. For post hole digger work, the 4520 with the electronic PTO is pretty hard to beat.

D.

I prefer the hydraulic post hole digger mounted off the fel.

 

[ddivinia]

I prefer the hydraulic post hole digger mounted off the fel.

YEah - good stuff.

Working with what I have.

D.

 

[Renthal]

What would happen if you are in E-PTO mode and engage the PTO switch above 1700 RPM? Will the tractor automatically drop to 1700 RPM?

I just got a new 4520 cab with a MX6. In normal PTO mode, the set up tech that delivered my tractor told me to run the engine RPM's up to full operating speed before engaging the PTO for the cutter. This seems like it would be hard on the equipment. I also read somewhere that you should engage at a lower 1500RPM. When engaginging at this low engine speed the tractor really bogs down and stumbles. This seems to be really bad for the engine. Could anyone who has experience with this set up help and offer input on what is the best way to engage this cutter with the least strain or wear to the tractor?

 

[eepete]

Renthal:

The "engage at 1500 RPM" is right from the user manual under Engaging Rear PTO Only.

Encapsulating the thread thus far, I've found that if I'm using the E-PTO with the MX6 that I have to be running at about 1750 RPM (the "correct" speed for using the E-PTO). If I'm lower in speed, it's too much load. When I engage the MX6 with the normal PTO, I tend to run about 1600 RPM and the MX6 comes up to speed a bit faster and the engine only bogs down to about 800 RPM.

ddivinia said he thought the MX6 was just too heavy duty to ever use on with the E-PTO. E-PTO output is 32 HP, MX6 minimum HP is 30. So I can see his point- why run at the edge of the envelope if it's not necessary?

jenkinsph has used his MX6 with the E-PTO but just for very light grass cutting. He didn't mention any concerns about lugging the engine down to spin it up. If he's not worried, I'm not worried.

I only use E-PTO on level ground for lawn-like trimming of grass. Where I have a hill or with anything other than grass that has already been mowed and is just being maintained, I use it at normal speed. I go from about 5 gallons of fuel use to about 3.5 gallons of fuel use by doing this, so the fuel savings over the life of the tractor won't pay for a single maintenance problem that might happen due to extra load of engaging the MX6 with the E-PTO. For me it's more about less time lifting the fuel can.

No one has mentioned which gets more wear and tear on spin-up, the clutch or the engine. My guess is they are all being used within their ratings, so it's not worth worrying about (and believe me if there is something to worry about I'm all over it :laughing.

As for your 1st question, you could try engaging the PTO at say 1900 RPM with no load and see what happens. I don't think I'd risk kicking in the MX6 when the PTO was running above spec. I think lugging the engine down to 600 RPM very briefly is not a big deal.

I hope this summary and my experiences help. I'm still coming up to speed, just got my 4520 late last summer.

Pete

 

[ddivinia]

What would happen if you are in E-PTO mode and engage the PTO switch above 1700 RPM? Will the tractor automatically drop to 1700 RPM?

I just got a new 4520 cab with a MX6. In normal PTO mode, the set up tech that delivered my tractor told me to run the engine RPM's up to full operating speed before engaging the PTO for the cutter. This seems like it would be hard on the equipment. I also read somewhere that you should engage at a lower 1500RPM. When engaginging at this low engine speed the tractor really bogs down and stumbles. This seems to be really bad for the engine. Could anyone who has experience with this set up help and offer input on what is the best way to engage this cutter with the least strain or wear to the tractor?

That guy won't be there to put the parts back in when it blows up.

With a PTO device that has lot of weight, etc in the driveline, etc - I like to feather it in. Which on these electric PTOs is not an option. That is one reason I opted for the old fashion lever PTO on my 5525 with the economy PTO.

Now, I love my 4520 cab for use with a post hole digger. I can control it all right there. PTO, draft, etc.

On the 4520 with MX6 (which I have - no economy PTO on my 2008). There is no way I would have the engine at full 540 output and then fire up the PTO unless it is already spinning.

I go about half up or so (don't have the tach memorized). I also have the cutter up some (not in a bunch of thick grass 0 less resistance) - Get it spinning and then bring it up to full speed.

I guarantee you that everything in the drive line will thank you. Yes it lugs the engine some, but I am sure it will handle it fine - all the ujoints, splines, etc along the way are the weak link IMHO.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

Renthal:

The "engage at 1500 RPM" is right from the user manual under Engaging Rear PTO Only.

Encapsulating the thread thus far, I've found that if I'm using the E-PTO with the MX6 that I have to be running at about 1750 RPM (the "correct" speed for using the E-PTO). If I'm lower in speed, it's too much load. When I engage the MX6 with the normal PTO, I tend to run about 1600 RPM and the MX6 comes up to speed a bit faster and the engine only bogs down to about 800 RPM.

ddivinia said he thought the MX6 was just too heavy duty to ever use on with the E-PTO. E-PTO output is 32 HP, MX6 minimum HP is 30. So I can see his point- why run at the edge of the envelope if it's not necessary?

jenkinsph has used his MX6 with the E-PTO but just for very light grass cutting. He didn't mention any concerns about lugging the engine down to spin it up. If he's not worried, I'm not worried.

I only use E-PTO on level ground for lawn-like trimming of grass. Where I have a hill or with anything other than grass that has already been mowed and is just being maintained, I use it at normal speed. I go from about 5 gallons of fuel use to about 3.5 gallons of fuel use by doing this, so the fuel savings over the life of the tractor won't pay for a single maintenance problem that might happen due to extra load of engaging the MX6 with the E-PTO. For me it's more about less time lifting the fuel can.

No one has mentioned which gets more wear and tear on spin-up, the clutch or the engine. My guess is they are all being used within their ratings, so it's not worth worrying about (and believe me if there is something to worry about I'm all over it :laughing.

As for your 1st question, you could try engaging the PTO at say 1900 RPM with no load and see what happens. I don't think I'd risk kicking in the MX6 when the PTO was running above spec. I think lugging the engine down to 600 RPM very briefly is not a big deal.

I hope this summary and my experiences help. I'm still coming up to speed, just got my 4520 late last summer.

Pete

I agree

On another note: I bet most of our sip cluthes are rusted shut anyway. I learned that on my HX-15 15' batwing. I am trying to slip my clutched every year - just too lazy or busy to do it all the time.

I had it happen on my 467 baler. Had a cedar stick get in there - brought the whole rig to s stop -= baler, tractor, etc - crazy.

So - everybody check those slip clutches and don't go nuts over this ePTO stuff. The fuel savings is nice, but all depends on the implement. I use it all the time for spraying - driving a water pump is a joke for these tractors.

D.

 

[Renthal]

Thank you eepete and ddivinia for your help. :thumbsup: I'm a newbie with this machine and am still in the learning stages with it.