Engine oil testing????

[dmccarty]

Has anyone out there used an oil testing service to decide when to change engine oil? I have read about some very long oil change intervals using the oil test to decide when to change. Is this a good or bad thing to do?

I do UOA on the tractor and F350. Blackstone does my testing. A few years ago I was searching for something and ran across a review of oil testers and the review liked Blackstone over the others. I had been using Blackstone for years at that point due to recommendations on thedieselstop Ford website. You might find the review and see if it makes sense to you.

Anywho, I test to see what is happening in the engine as well as extend the time on the oil. On the truck I change about 8,000-9,000 miles. The lab says to try up to 10,000 but I have not gone that high. I have been using Shell 5W40 which has a TBN of 12. I have never had the TBN go below 10 so I could really go farther TBN wise.

One thing that has shown up in the UOA at different levels on both the tractor and F350 is fuel in the oil. Its has been at allowable levels but it needs to be watched. On the truck, the two occasions fuel showed up in the UOA I was stuck in heavy traffic for maybe 10-20% of my milage. The oil needed to be changed due to fuel in the oil. So I pay attention to how much driving is in heavy traffic.

The tractor is not idled but I also dont run it at PTO speeds often. Usually the RPMS are around 1800-2000. Its time to change the oil in the tractor so it will be interesting to see the UOA.

The tractor get a UOA every oil change. The truck is every other change. Its worth the money to me since I know I can run the oil longer and the engine is ok. I don't mind changing the oil but it does take time. Spending $20ish once a year saves me at least an hour of time that is better spent elsewhere.

Later,
Dan

 

[KICK]

Good try kick but,
I don't see where you are certified in any engine oil, oil analysis(using different oils) ,performed any oil test yourself through oil analysis, engine wear, etc, etc,. So, I'am not empressed . Guess I'am not that EZ


I'll list some of my certifications. Mine have nothing to do with oil but, neither does yours

the mere fact that someone is or is not certified in any discipline does not preclude someone from having knowledge of the item in question.

For instance, I can tell when an engine is sludged up without an oil analysis. I can tell when fuel is in the oil , simply by the way it feels or runs off the dipstick. but those lessons are from experience and observation, not a book.

I dont think my certifications really mean anything other than I have a small amount of mechanical experience and knowledge,and am able to pass a written test, in reality they don't mean anything but the piece of paper they are printed on. not much different than a college diploma really, just a piece of paper unless you can perform.

but 30 years of experience I have watching diesel powered equipment break does have value and I doubt too many people on the board have dealt with this stuff as much as I have. I sit back and read all of it with a good dose of sKepticism. Advertisers come and advertisers go, if you know what I mean.


so If someone is in a hurry to embrace the new ideas, go ahead, I'll trust my instincts like I always have and wait to draw a conclusion.


the point is the guy did did oil analysis and stretched out his OCI to 90k miles. thats a long time and if it holds up for the long haul I'm willing to listen... but he hasn't ran the engine yet to the point where the engine wore out and came up with a long term answer or analysis.

At my job we went to synthetic gear lubes and automatic tranny oil in the early 90's, and our gearbox lifes tripled, so after about a 5 year observation period I agreed came to a conclusion that there is value in the stuff.


same can be said for waiting till his engine goes full cycle and is worn out. careful observation and statistics, not extrapolating a conclusion at an early point are what matters.

you gotta figure all the ISB's in a light duty vehicle like a pickup are good for at least 300k with regular old 15w40 and regular changes, and getting the oil changed also serves a double purpose of someone getting under the vehicle and noticing other problems which may develop. If one never takes a look at their vehicle, disregarding the oil changes, you are asking for something critical to fail while you are getting all this service life outa the oil, and one tow / component replacement because of the lack of other maintnence eats up any money saved on the extended OCI.

downtime costs whatever the reason.

 

[frank_miller]

So UOA need spectro analysis and you can tell by looking at it? Are you super oil man and tell me what % of what fluid?

I can tell if an engine is sludged up too but the corrective action is to prevent it (like a smart owner) and use a cheap UOA will tell you LONG before super sludge man can?If anyone can tell, you are a moron for letting the engine get that bad.

Yup, he has run it 90K miles and the fact remains the UOA says it is fine; but you say not? Gee, let me think whom I trust. You with 30 year of non-formal cert training or a million dollars testing business? Hmmmm

Fact is our Military, commerical airlines, etc all use UOA on engines but I guess that do not have super sludge man powers!

Then comes, it took you people 5-years to come to the conclusion about something 20+ years old? Staying ahead of the curve I see..LOL

Observation are just that and need data to support it. Sorry statistics are crap since you can bend the truth with them Heck, I have taken classes on how to do that?ot to hard.

The fact remains that it is impressive that he went that long and this is nothing new in todays word. What is pointless is that people think dino oil changed (regular as you say) will serve anything. It does serve a waste of time, manpower, money etc. First, send the $$$ (like $25 for a non blackstone real test) on a UOA and see how the engine is performing and the bonus is oil duration. Then go by the numbers and not a 努ell I have been doing that?

Most times a person changing the oil cannot find a bushing gone in a front end or a bad rearend Not gonna happen for min wage.

PS. This 渡ew idea of oil testing is older then the gear fluid issue you ran into.

Downtime cost money if you are not wise upfront.

 

[KICK]

You have to be able to be one with the vehcile in order to have my powers of observation. Vehciles talk to me and tell me what is wrong with them. sadly most people don't have that gift. LOL.

my employer has done oil analysis for years..... I read the reports....spent plenty of time chasin our tails on some of the lab results too... its funny but when you deal with 1000 vehicles and 300 mechanics you end up with a different outlook than someone who deals with a his own vehicle.

So the guy did the testing and ran his engine 90k on the oil....thats the end result so far... I don't see anything thats proof other than a one owner vehicle, driven by someone who cares, going a long way on what he put in the crankcase.

 

[frank_miller]

Weird. since oil tribologists, chemist spend there life understand oil testing and you expect to understand this (with no background etc???? Not saying you do not but leave this to people who do this for a living, cert'ed in proper areas and present there findings to comps like Exxon, Shell etc.

I trust mechanics zero since there are not quald in UOA reading. Sorry. They turn nuts and bolts not spending hours behind a white jacket.

I trust blackstone more then again, yourself whom does not do this for a living nor have the background to support the raw data.

Fact is I see no proof that you can provde that his UOA will do any harm, hurt longevity, design functions etc. If so, I guess our Gov, Delta airlines (and others), Blackstone etc are not as smart in there business/training as yourself. This is the year 2008 not 1978.

This is what the trend is and the old-school people do not like change.

 

[KICK]

I trust mechanics zero since there are not quald in UOA reading. Sorry. They turn nuts and bolts not spending hours behind a white jacket.



Frank , you sound like you are surrounded by them guys in white coats.

I've often wondered what it was like to have to take medicine in order to cope wth people of differing opinions.... whats it like to need to be right all the time, does one have to resort to name calling or belittling other professions in order to feel vindicated.

while I have a conservative and old fashioned attitude regarding oil analysis and its benefits, it was purchased at quite a price, but the same cant be said for some people. it reminds me of politicians, making decsions based on poll results.

seeing as you appear to have the same conservative and old fashioned opinion of what mechanics do and don't know what is required to be a proficient mechanic on modern vehicles, let me clarify that it isn't all nuts and bolts anymore, so depending on what you work on... you might also deal with multiplexing, ECM's, wiring and communications devices and myriad other electronic devices that have found their way into more modern vehicles. 12 and 24 volt systems, pneumatics, hydraulics, active suspension, to name a few....

I'll give you that its just nuts and bolts that attach most of these devices , but some poor slob still has to figure out where the problem lies because I'm not aware of any vehicle that was ever fixed in a labratory.

I guess what it all comes down to is that you can't put all your faith in science, you got to put some in people .

 

[kenmac]

I've often wondered what it was like to have to take medicine in order to cope wth people of differing opinions.... whats it like to need to be right all the time, does one have to resort to name calling or belittling other professions in order to feel vindicated.



Kick,
Having a difference of opinion is ok but, you were the one that started the name calling ( I'm EZ) Remember I believe you are the one that said his Lab results ain't proof of anything & that I'm easly impressed. Remember . His Results are facts of his oil testing. No one here ever stated that everyone would get the same results as he did . But, in my opinion he got great results back from a lab & It's proof to him that the lab said all was ok. Mabe he should have consulted with you instead of the lab If he continues with these type results Wear #'s etc, I don't think he should see any major problems. While I'm not a certified mechanic . I have had several drad cars & built my own engines. So, I know a little about engine wear myself

 

[frank_miller]

kick- A mechanics is still just that. Anyone can follow a book and trouble shoot. It is not the same as understanding UOA and the elements/properties. If it did, they would have nut turners pulling UOA and completing them. That would be fun to see.

Again I put my faith in real world numbers that are completed with many years of understanding and tech knowledge. Again I mechanic is not even in the same planet as the white coat people. Not knocking them but just stating a fact.

UOA come at a price? Yup, all $18 to $25 of it! I love it people spend thoudands on equipment and whine about a simple $20 UOA...

 

[chh]

Glad you love guys like me frank. I've probably got $200,000 tied up in trucks, tractors, and dozers. Don't think I would test if it was free. I never keep a pickup past 100,000 miles, trade off equipment that has a problem or have fixed when it breaks. Use Rotella T and napa filters and just change when the schedule says or before. Average use on the tractors and dozers is all in the 250 hour a year range a piece.
I have a pilots certificate and have flown quite a bit. If I owned an aircraft I would test it at every oil change. After all a small aircraft engine overhaul is 20 to 50 grand. With TBO's ranging from 1600 to 2400 hrs anything that could extend the life of the engine is a no brainer. Airlines, fleet trucks with hired drivers, large equipment companies with hired operators, I would say could benefit from periodic testing to see what changes need to be made in their maintance programs. For an average rancher, guy with a CUT mowing and moving snow, or with a diesel PU(because it sounds cool) the costs most likely will outweigh any benefit because they won't keep the machine long enough to see the end of the engines useful life anyway.

 

[Kaliburz]

I don't do oil testing personally, but the local school district that I drive for does. Each bus is oil tested once a year right before the oil is changed. If I recall, it was done to see if anything is wrong w/ the engine.

I've noticed that most of the buses have an oil change schedule of once a year. It seems to be 8-10,000 miles (as each bus has a sticker that says 'Next oil change due at XXX,XXX' mounted near the driver area- just in case the shop forgets).

I'm not sure if the oil changes have been changed because of the testing. I thought that at one time, oil was changed twice a year, bascially every 4-5,000 miles.