Engine Siezed, What to do?

[powerstroke444e]

Trade it for a new one??? And have the dealer do all the services on the new one.

Honestly I seen the old kubota that the school district had lock up and they just let it cool off and it started right up, that was years ago but I know they kept using it for several more years. So if it was me run it till she blows or trade it.

& Yes I agree with what everyone else has said about checking the oil filter and checking the bearings.

 

[bncsauve]

I'm in mtviewranch's corner. I would change the oil, look for metal and if I didn't find any, I would run it as usual.

Well, I'm going to be the bad guy here and say to go ahead and use the machine. Everybody is saying that it is going to cost you money, so why not go ahead and keep using it? It very well may keep going for quite awhile, or it may break and cost you some money. It is one of those things that you just don't know. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there is no damage, just that it may be only as if you have many more hours than you actually have, but still workable.

Just my opinion, nobody else has to agree.

 

[Wis Bang]

By the fact the tractor ran, I am not so sure about seizure.

I am wondering if your oil got low, the engine kill kicked on, and the noise you heard was from the mower (or even the tractor) coming to a complete stop suddenly (belts spinning, blah blah blah).

How much oil did you have to put back in to get the indicator to normal?

If you want to be cautious and not get stuck out in the field, get a mechanic to go over it. But, the truth is damage is done if the engine actually seized, and you will require probably a complete rebuild. So continuing to run it until it finally fails, or your coffers fill up financially, probably isn't going to do too much more damage than allready done.

See, you allready started it and got it back to the barn. Whatever additional damage that could be done by restarting the engine has been done. Why not just keep driving it till it fails.

Since it re-started, it sounds like a Murphy switch [low Oil Pressure Shutoff] something common on stand alone commercial 'pony' engines, shut things down. The screech is common when a fanbelt stops suddenly at working speed.

Did it have oil pressure, quickly, on re-start?

Was the warning light out on the way back to the barn?

System shutdown protection is designed to save the engine; OP may have been very lucky. It is prudent to have the engine condition evaluated. If it had oil pressure on re-start and holds a good amount of pressure, a mechanical evaluation could be done to decide if a teardown is required [or 'indicated' as the manual would say] going by the specifications for this machine and the professionals opinion that it is not making any strange noise.

I remember having Owner Operators w/ early 80's Cummins being told to maintain fluid levels and run them until they reached their appointment week sometime in the next one to two month time period being told they couldn't hurt them any more...your mileage may vary but it's best to get a good diesel technician's evaluation someone mobile would be best.

 

[kenstrac]

Low oil pressure switches are used in unattended engines I have never seen one on a tractor. On the backhoes I have run they did not have one just a buzzer to alert operator of low oil,overheat engine & hyd .

 

[IH3444]

Does the engine sound the same when running, or is it louder? Do you hear any new noises? I worked as an engine remanufacturer. Build over 300 engines. From multicylinder motorcycles, to sports cars.......Only once I forgot to put oil in a brand new engine. I started it up, was running it. It squealed, then imediately stopped. I could not turn it over with a 2ft. breaker bar on the crankshaft nut. I left it alone to completely cool off. After 3 hours it would turn over. Mind you these are all new pistons, fresh bored and honed cylinders, etc. I put oil in it, and started it up. Seemed to be fine. Checked everything I could. All looked well. It went to the customer, and to this day it never had a problem. We warrentied all our remanufactured engines for 12 months/12,000 miles, so if it would have failed, it most likely would have been in that time frame.

Now yous has possibly substained some damage. You won't know that unless you drop the oil pan, and pull some connecting rod caps. It maybe just fine. I personally would inspect the crankshsft journals, and if they look good. Just reinstall everything, and refill with fresh oil. If there is any scuffing of the crankshaft, then possibly it can be polished out while still in the engine. I've done this also. Then new rod, and main bearing installed. The cylinder bores are probally not hurt, if any just slightly.

 

[Bill_C]

I had a Yamaha 750 motrcycle seize up on me (had an oil leak and thus ran it low on oil) and it locked up solid on a French autoroute. I parked it, came back the next day, put oil in 'er and she started right up.

Sounded like a cement mixer full of metal bars. Ran just enough to get it to the next exit before she seized for good. I parked 'er again, came back a couple days later and somebody had stolen it .....France required full coverage insurance so I reported it stolen (darn I forgot to tell them it was seized up) and got a check for around $1000 a few months later....

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I wonder if those of you saying run it would say that if it were your tractor and you need it to make a living. If the cylinders are scored it will be low on power and run like a 20 year old tractor not a 2 year old.As of rite now it may need an overhaul.If he keeps running it and there is a spun bearing the rod will end up breaking causing catastrophic damage like a hole in the side of the block. Now the repair price has tripled or more. Also the owner will always be wondering when its going to quit.
Bill

 

[CurlyDave]

Well, we already know the OP can pull the oil pan, because he has said so.

I would be inclined to pull the pan, clean everything up inside, and see if I could talk a diesel mechanic into coming over after work to take a look at it. I will bet that for $100, maybe $200 tops he could get a very valid opinion on the status of the engine.

The chance that everything is just fine may not be that high, but the cost of finding out this way is low enough that it is worth doing.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I wonder if those of you saying run it would say that if it were your tractor and you need it to make a living. If the cylinders are scored it will be low on power and run like a 20 year old tractor not a 2 year old.As of rite now it may need an overhaul.If he keeps running it and there is a spun bearing the rod will end up breaking causing catastrophic damage like a hole in the side of the block. Now the repair price has tripled or more. Also the owner will always be wondering when its going to quit.
Bill

See, here's the thing. He is using it on his 38 acre farm, don't think that it his his living? Says that he is unemployed, so normally would think that he usually has some other job. Farming is just a fun thing to do. Doesn't have a lot of money since he is unemployed. Eyes are always on the gauges, so as he said, it all happened in a blink of an eye. So the engine ran with little or no oil for seconds. Oil doesn't disappear from the bearing surfaces that fast. After refilling with oil, engine starts right up, runs fine.

20 year old tractor, well if he puts hours on like most of the people do here on TBN, no problem, your talking about 2500-3000 hours. We are currently running tractors with 7k-10k hours with no problems. Sure, so that the OP feels ok about running it, he is getting it checked out. Fine, no problem, he will feel better, I feel that it is most likely to be ok and would not worry about it myself, but that is just me. Oh, and if there was a problem down the road, we do all of our own repairs, so we tend to look at things in a little different perspective, but then again that is just us.

 

[warhammer]

When I did the 50 hour service on my DK45SE the oil drain plug felt like it was torqued to about 4 foot pounds. I was amazed it hadn't come out during the first 50 hours of use.

Warhammer

Greetings fellow TBNers.

First of all, I would like to say thanks.
The missus and I bought a small farm 2 years ago, our first attempt after leaving the city, (factory for me, small business for the missus).
If it was not for this site, I would have been beaten down, even more than I am.
Trying to learn, but too old for FFA & 4H.
Locals are like everywhere else, good and bad, honest and scams.
The community on this site though is what is the best in people.
Always meant to post, but always got caught up reading other threads.
Sooo much to learn it is nearly overwhelming.

Anyways.
Finished spring maintenance on my Kioti DK45SE HST, Tranny/Hydro filter & oil change, cleaned flushed radiator, oil w/filter change, greased points.
Finally have a good 4 - 5 days of weather to get my first cutting in, (alfalfa w/orchard grass).
I am in hog heaven.

After the cut, I begin to tedder.

I am very good about watching my gauges, everything fine.
But before I realize it, my oil light comes on, and as I review the situation, the engine does one stomach turning screech, and shuts off all in the space in the blink of the eye.
I am very good about shutting down the tractor as soon as problems occur, (broken pins, bolts, etc), but never had a chance.
Turn the key to off, hop off the tractor, and find the one of the oil pan bolts have come loose.
My fault, I usually double and triple check things because I am so paranoid of screwing things up when I work on them, especially my vehicles, (not a pride thing with me, it is solely a cost concern).
Did not properly tighten the bolts.
I am still sick over it.
But, have to do something.
Replaced the bolt, put oil in, it started, drove it back to the shed.
Came to my security blanket, and ask for help.

The question is, what are my next steps to find out what damage was done?

I apologize for the length, but have learned from previous threads, the more information, usually the better.

The picture uploaded, (if properly done), was me celebrating God's creation just a few short hours before being reminded of a line from "The Seven Samurai", "God hates farmers".
Maybe in my case he hates stupid farmers.
But Lord knows I'm trying.

Thanks in advance to the community.

Leon & Therese

 

[leonandtherese]

Greetings and bless all for the input.

First of all, when I took the tractor back to the barn after the event, it did not sound right, nothing terrible, but just did not sound right.
Not only have I been extensively using my eyes watching the gauges, but even more importantly, I have become extremely accustomed to using my ears to learn the natural sounds of the various operations, (idle, running, the "ping" of when a bale is tied, love that sound, etc, etc).
Also, the tractor did not seem to be operating at normal power for the brief jaunt to the barn.

Granted, I was extremely upset at myself, and could have been hyper-sensitive, but even at the time, was aware of these facts and attempted as best as I can to objectively note anything worthy.

Plus, the tractor does not have a low oil shut off switch.
And the screech that I heard was absolutely no doubt in my mind metal on metal, not the belts.

Since then:

1). Pulled the pan, found significant metallic debris, (size of small shavings from a drill press), sighed, reassembled.

2). Received my shop manual today, (yeah!), that was coincidentally ordered three days before the event, (did I jinx myself?).

3). Still taking it in to a certified mechanic for thourough examination.

While I have basic capabilities and tools, I feel that this is above my pay-grade.
As previously discussed, peace of mind, and a tractor running the way it should are my biggest concerns.
I have to agree with Hooked on HP and others, I feel, (know), that there is damage, but hopefully can limit it, and repair to as good as it can get by taking it in now.
Yes the cost is something that I can ill afford, (probably topping out in absolutely worst case engine replacement scenario around 5 grand, sigh).
Yes, I am not making a living off of the farming . . . yet.
But me and the missus are trying to eventually get to the stage with our 5 & 10 year plan to help supplement our retirement, with beef cattle, and growing our own forage.
Plus we want to expand the size of our farm, (who doesn't?).
Thus, I want, ney, need, an effective tractor.

Finally, OP?
Is this what I think it is?
Me and the missus use the abbreviation OFP, (from the 80's movie Repo Man).
My momma doesn't think I am an OP.
Now I'm really POed.
A POed OP!
Plus, with my age, er old, and nationality, (Polish), this would make me a POed OPOP.
Or POed OP2, (squared).
Still.

Thanks everyone for the input.
This is why the site is the best for Newbie OP farmers like myself.

I will update with final results once they come in.

Sincerely

Leon and Therese

P.S. The day after the event we went into the field to look to see if we could see where the bolt dropped out, a 3 acre heavy growth alfalfa/orchard grass field that was cut and teddered. Like looking for a needle in a haystack, S*&^ you not, within 15 minutes the missus not only found the initial spot, but found the plug.
She really is the best.

 

[aczlan]

Finally, OP?

OP = Original Poster, Generally used to refer to the person who started the thread.

Aaron Z

 

[leonandtherese]

Oooohhh.
Original Poster.
That's what it means.
Darn 21st century languages.
I still am having a hard enough time with that 19th century one.
Not to even mention those 20th & 12th century ones!

Thanks, and I take back all that umbrage I felt.

L & T

 

[CurlyDave]

1. Please keep us all informed about progress.

2. I have no idea about what you may have thought OP meant, but we usually don't disparage people here on TBN. Especially not when they have had serious difficulties like you have. If someone says he rode his ATV out to a farm a few miles from home, shot a cow he didn't own and dragged it back to his freezer, he will get an earful. But guys who have accidents and misfortune get help and advice.

After you have been around for a while there might be a light-hearted comment or two, but only in funny situations.

 

[oliver28472]

To the OP, L&T: Just sent you a PM. (private message)

 

[Coyote machine]

Here is what I would do- considering your less than fortunate economic situation, and what else you have posted about finding metal like drill press cuttings.
I would definitely not start that engine again. Have it diagnosed and fixed properly for peace of mind, and doing things the right way the first time is almost always cheaper in the long run.
The damage is done- clearly running it more will render the expense proportional to how long you run it. That is, the longer you run it without proper repair the more it will cost you.

Good luck, and post back what you have been told prior to doing the actual repairs so we can suggest what else if anything to do to get you back in the alfalfa.

 

[dodge man]

I would say your best case would be new bearings and rings and honing the cylinders. Thats not likely going to happen if there is that many shavings in the oil. That puts the best case at turning the crank, and all new bearings. Worse case is new crank, rods, pistons, maybe some help on the valve gear and cam? If a used engine could be found, that might be the cheapest route. Can diesels be bored and fitted with oversized pistons like gas engines? I assume so.

 

[IH3444]

Wish I was closer, I would help you. The crank needs to be inspected closely, may be OK with just a polish. Honeing the cylinders may all it needs also. The ring most likely overheated, and lost a bit of spring. Colud almost do the repair in the tractor. Pull head, pistons, mark of course what came from where. Inspect crank, and mic. Bummer, sorry to read about it. But on the bright side your SO is a keeper, and a cutie! I'm certain that the head is OK, maybe just disassemble, inspect, lap valves, and reassemble. You would learn alot, and not be green on engine work. You also would be doing most of the work. Sounds like it is very repairable. keep us informed, and pictures help alot.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Oooohhh.
Original Poster.
That's what it means.
Darn 21st century languages.
I still am having a hard enough time with that 19th century one.
Not to even mention those 20th & 12th century ones!

Thanks, and I take back all that umbrage I felt.

L & T

REPO MAN.. Classic... Follow it up with USED CARS and you have filled up a lovely friday night...

 

[cowboy357]

Sorry to here about the bad luck & wish you the Best . I Find it rather Odd ( unless I Missed it ) that noone Has Mentioned anything about the Temp guage .

I would think it Would have Pegged Before the Plug Fell Plum out just from being low on Oil . . Were The oil & Temp guages not working Properlly ? Or does it just have the Idiot lights ? Sorry Thats Just What we Allways Called Them, . Just Curious . Best of Luck again, Bob