Environmentalists won't quit until we are walking and have no vehicles
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tcreeley
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Re the asbestos- like cigarettes, we don't see an immediate result, but for some, it is not a good result. Had a student 23 years ago talk to me about being a mechanic like his father. He said he knew to be careful about brake drums and that pile of dust that sits there when you take the drum off. He said his father coughs all of the time, and he didn't want to end up like him in his 50's and coughing. How many of you played with lead shot? I used to sneak out 16 gauge shotgun shells and take them apart to try and make firecrackers. The lead balls were fun to hammer and flatten and I'd walk around with some in my pocket. Scratch them - they were shiny, could write on flat rocks, etc.. The powder was what I was careful about. In my working live I'xe come across one 15 yr old girl in a mental hospital from lead poisoning, she died before she was 18, and later another girl with memory issues- nothing big, just enough to make school very hard for her. I'm fine despite my foolishness, but these two were not.
When people speak out against the EPA, they often don't offer an alternative. I remember a dirtier world as a kid in the50's + 60's. I think that people haven't seen it as up close as it used to be, or have forgotten. Look at the battle over cigarettes- I'm appreciative because I don't have to put up with my eyes watering, and coughing when I was surrounded by smoke. No one is perfect- I dumped some motor oil on the ground near the road the other day. It will be carried into the ditch by the rain at some point. I also used to love tossing trash out the car window- there then it is gone! & no trash in the car. It is hard to always "be good".
Our world is backwards. Instead of figuring out the toxins first in our manufacturing processes and adjusting and using prevention- we figure out the toxins when we start to see enough damage. Of course sometimes the science just wasn't there. When I came to Maine and smelled the air in a papermill town, I couldn't believe that this was the price of progress and jobs. It could not be escaped- for miles in all directions. People joked about the boiled cabbage smell. I thought about "health". Maine has a very high cancer rate. It is hard to see economic activity and pollution in terms of diminishing returns. How many sickened people does it take to balance a job and quarterly profit to turn the tide? I think about this a lot. Money is green right- money always talks loudest- until the grief of death becomes loud enough, or until pockets of citizens get angry enough to act. The EPA is there to ease the situation- to improve things in a peaceful way.
When people speak out against the EPA, they often don't offer an alternative. I remember a dirtier world as a kid in the50's + 60's. I think that people haven't seen it as up close as it used to be, or have forgotten. Look at the battle over cigarettes- I'm appreciative because I don't have to put up with my eyes watering, and coughing when I was surrounded by smoke. No one is perfect- I dumped some motor oil on the ground near the road the other day. It will be carried into the ditch by the rain at some point. I also used to love tossing trash out the car window- there then it is gone! & no trash in the car. It is hard to always "be good".
Our world is backwards. Instead of figuring out the toxins first in our manufacturing processes and adjusting and using prevention- we figure out the toxins when we start to see enough damage. Of course sometimes the science just wasn't there. When I came to Maine and smelled the air in a papermill town, I couldn't believe that this was the price of progress and jobs. It could not be escaped- for miles in all directions. People joked about the boiled cabbage smell. I thought about "health". Maine has a very high cancer rate. It is hard to see economic activity and pollution in terms of diminishing returns. How many sickened people does it take to balance a job and quarterly profit to turn the tide? I think about this a lot. Money is green right- money always talks loudest- until the grief of death becomes loud enough, or until pockets of citizens get angry enough to act. The EPA is there to ease the situation- to improve things in a peaceful way.
RoyJackson
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Sure...look how successful Amtrak has been...
High speed rail makes sense if you want to go from one major hub to another. Those trains aren't going to stop in East Bumfuct, KY...are they? So, then a passenger goes to Louisville (for example) and has to rent a car to reach his destination.
If high speed rail was a sensible proposition, private industry would build it. We don't need, and cannot afford, another money sucking proposition. Oh...we already have Amtrak!
tcreeley
Elite Member
As a kid my family took a trip from western Mass to NYC via train. There was a double rail car that passed through our town daily. We boarded in our rural town and rode it to the terminal in Sringfield, Ma where we switched to a larger train with multiple cars and an obvious locomotive and took that into NYC. We stayed overnight, visited stuff and returned the same way.
In the town I work in, the locals speak of a trolley that used to run from Bangor, and pass through all of the local towns up to the ones farther north. It came through twice daily - up and back. Kids rode it to go fishing, it was a way to get to work, and a way to get to town. Towns are 12-15 miles apart in this area, separated by woods and fields. We used to have a saying- "do you live in town, or out of town". The transportation works for the in town folks. There are a lot of those. I think rail disappeared when the cars became better quality, and could make the long trips in one piece. I think there is a place for rail, but there is no will for rail - it still seems old fashioned and people believe in progress. When I used to live in the Boston area- Waltham, I used to take the train out of town to work in a leather factory after college. My wife had the car. The train and subway is the lifeblood of the Boston area.
It would require a renewed infrastructure (jobs), but there still is no will to go rail. I like that ad on tv- rail can move so many thousand pounds of cargo on a gallon of diesel like nothing else can.
RoyJackson
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Moving people, via rail, is quite inefficient compared to moving freight. There's a lot of open space in a passenger railcar...not much unused space in a freight car.
toppop52
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And how much fossil energy will be consumed building these high speed rails to everywhere we need them, how long will it take and where the h3ll is the money coming from?
Domush
Platinum Member
Apples and oranges. Might as well give up on cars based on the Model T having the same number of wheels.
Last time I checked, a 747 doesn't do curb side pickup, either. If I want to fly somewhere the nearest airport is Nashville, TN. Only the HS rail is 4 times more efficient. Do you have a point?
I'll state this in a language you speak fluently, sarcasm:
Just like how all highways are privately owned..
Government doesn't have any hand in airports, highways and current rail, nope..
And all of the wars we continue to fight for oil so shortsighted people can continue burying their heads in the sand, that doesn't suck any money, not at all..
Oh yeah.. that logic thing, so inconvenient..
I hope speaking your language helped, because I care so much about people who hide their inadequacies behind sarcasm.. :irked:
toppop52
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He must love himself then!:laughing:
RoyJackson
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Amtrak was set up for high speed rail (>100 MPH)...however, much of the existing rail system was not safe for high speed. The cost of building and maintaining such a rail system is astronomical...and don't compare the European systems to the US. Cities are much closer together in Europe. I lived in Europe (Italy) and used the rail system quite a bit...
Rail terminals are going to be just as inconvenient as airports...if you consider airports inconvenient. Rail terminals would require quite a bit of land to operate...and this land would be in the most expensive locations to make them convenient to the users of the systems. When I write "expensive", it's not just the money involved...it's the people and businesses that would have to be displaced for the terminals.
Sarcasm? Boy, you apparently don't read your own posts...or, you're too ignorant to understand your own use of sarcasm...which is prevalent in most of your posts (at least, the few that I've bothered to read).
Rail, both passenger and freight, have long been the province of private industry (passenger up until the late 1950's). However, passenger transportation has not been a profitable enterprise.
Even rail in Europe has been a heavily subsidized enterprise...none, to the best of my knowledge, have ever made a profit...that's not too bad IF they had paid their own way...but they haven't...just as Amtrak hasn't...or any other government sponsored project (with the possible exception of the dams built in the 1930's and 1940's).
If you're so enamored with with a high speed rail system, why don't YOU start a high speed rail service? I'm sure you'll find many people willing to invest (start in Hollywood). Put YOUR money where your mouth is...not MY money.
