(removed),
I am pretty sure that most of your point is moot. When the industry obsoletes things faster than we do...don't hold us to a standard that they can't support either. Lincolns invertecs are largely unsupported since they stopped their Italian production and even some of their "precision tig" models are. I can't get a replacement wire feeder for my venerable MIGMaster 250 from ESAB, which is a work horse, but they changed the manufacture of the feeder itself 4 or 5 times, apparently not making updated models backwards compatable. I can't get an original MT 200 gun either. What makes it bad is that was made in 2000, and they made it up until just a few years ago. And started the design back with Linde/L-tech back in the 80's. A 30 year run on a single model, you cannot get parts for.
Again, you can pick and choose the brand and model with any company and see stellar success and stellar failures of different models. You cannot present any "norm" for support or for life span in this industry. Look for a precision TIG 185 board. Try to find one you can afford, IF you can find one at all. I tried to get a board for my Ranger 8 a few years ago, and not a single new one was in the country. I was told I'd have to wait 6 months on them to make some more (if they decided to do it) or get it remanned. I got it remanned.
What I mean by my statement is that we are still supporting that product starting from 2008. We are starting to see a trickle in of problems from our customers for 10 and 11 year old product. Basic things. Sometimes complete product failures. However, We do offer repair on those items. We do offer boards, but many times customers are tickled that their 800.00 unit (then) lasted 11 years and are eager to replace it rather than repair it. Typical repair/rebuild these days will cost 450 to 650 dollars if that is what the customer chooses. In that case, they can negotiate directly with our central repair center for rebuild and parts.
Beyond 2008 we are not supporting that product with full parts...because it is a generic, widely available product that many places are offering "parts" for. We do offer some basic diagnosis, consumables and some basic parts. But since many boards from those days are available on places like EBAY and many copies of those old units are still being made we don't deal in a lot of parts on those models. (see this link for example:
tig 2acdc part - Google Shopping ) Those models sold for 400 too 500 dollars. Torches are available, foot pedals etc. with a little searching as well such as this. But the question remains (as it does with Miller and other brands, is it worth it to fix it rather than buy a new model?) Parts are relatively cheap. Labor is the issue.
Our factory is still producing our older product for other markets (non USA) and can supply parts on demand if we do not have them in stock. But a lot of our older product is easily repaired. We do not use main proprietary electronic components that are just made for us, and do not use common products, rebranding them, with our own part numbers etc to prevent cross over or repair like other companies. Part numbers, brands etc. are common, quality parts and are available anywhere electronics are typically supplied. Part numbers are on the components as should be, as well as company logo/names of manufacturer.
We made a move starting in 2013 to have a more easily supported product, with a modular, plug and play design with digital control. It was completed with our PowerPlasma i series recently. This makes it easier to support product long term. If you look at the video you saw, the board that in common with several models was programmed almost instantly for the specific model. This was done in the factory...but our repair facility has the same exact equipment and access to programming files.
The picture of our older product posted by "Snout" depicts an analog inverter design. People for some reason want "analog" because they picture it as simpler and more reliable (that picture was of an older TIG/Stick/Plasma iirc which means it has an extra inverter in it hence the nest of wires). The video is of our Analog 250EX that was redesigned to be digitally controlled. Big difference. Easily serviced, less parts and easier to maintain. When units share components too, this means longer and better parts and service support.
While I can't speak for Miller and Lincoln exactly, I do think you can look at their warranty as a indicator of their commitment to support long term and expected life span in a type of scale. As for us, we look at it that way. People told us back in 2008/2009 that our new 5 year warranty wouldn't hold up. We'd not be able to support a product that long...it would break us because our product wasn't very good etc. Here we are 12 years later. We supported it through some ups and downs in our economy. We may not have been the quickest at times, but we continued to dig deep and collect resources to continue support.
What we have now is Record breaking sales nearly every year. Hundreds of thousands of units on the market, product sold on 6 continents.
Service and support is faster than ever. People are going to gripe with every brand about service and support because with every brand there are cracks that customers fall through. No different with ours.
We replaced countless fleets of red and blue welders in shops because customers trialed us through 5 years of support on a single solitary "test" welder. We kinda laugh at challenges people present like Snout's these days, that try to drag up the past challenges and try to shackle us with it and disparage the product. Especially since people like that severely, and I mean severely underestimate the companies size and scope these days. We are driving the market in product choices and in price.
We pioneered the MTS (MIG/TIG/Stick) design product in the US back in 2009. Our 2009 introduced PowerMTS 160 and 200 was made in the same factory as the ESAB product is now. Hmmm...yet people want to say our products don't compare to them. Another example of underestimating our product and our company and our scope/capability. Our MTS products are still ahead of the rest of the lines, even with the introduction of the Rebel, and Multi-matics with features, flexibility and support.
When we introduce a new model or design, it isn't to obsolete our old product line if that is what you mean. We introduce it to expand our line. We have rarely killed off an entire line or model. If anything the new line builds on the old with improvements, but not necessarily in view of obsoleting it. Just as we did with our EX versus our EXT lines. People thought that the PowerTIG 250EX would be killed off. No, it was kept and now we have two 250Amp AC/DC TIG/Stick machines. People thought when we Introduced our E model 200 MIG that we'd kill off our standard 200 amp MIG. No, we added to the line.
Now with that said, we are slated to bring out some more product this year, with an updated look. But a major upgrade in a 7 or 8 year old running product isn't bad...and it doesn't mean the other models will disappear...they'll get some cosmetic upgrades that the new ones get as well...because as I said, we try to have a modular product.
I think Snout asked if I didn't tire of defending our product. No. I don't. Because every time I do, I get a chance to demonstrate to people the concentrated effort it takes of some people to slight the company and show how serious we are about our product and company. I really don't have to defend the product because even the model pictured are out there in huge numbers, still pounding out work everyday. So, when you post a picture like that trying to denigrate the product, it generates calls from customers, emails, responses etc. telling about their satisfaction with their product. Sometimes it isn't 100% rosey, but overall satisfied with what they got for the money and the overwhelming majority are ready to buy again. I love selling to repeat customers. I still remember a few of them when they call to tell me they are ready to buy again because I sold them a unit back in 2011, and they've made tons of money with it. There's no greater compliment.
But I am glad Snout posted along with some other expert. It gives me an opportunity to respond about our company, its progress and its ability to change and drive the market.
