European vs US safety

[SensibleNick]

I feel it boils down to the old question- Should you tell your kids to stay away from the water, or teach them to swim?

Much like the original question, It's never that simple

Our huge pond for example has depths from half a meter down to 3 meters. the bottom however is DEEP sludge. If you try to stand in the shallows you sink. If you were to dive into it I'm fairly sure you'd never come out again.... A kid that can swim may survive it, but they'd be far safer staying away from it.

With regards to the OP... I clearly live in Europe. I've not lived in the US, so I'm not really qualified to make a comparison, but the way I look at the difference goes a little bit like this.

USA: Warning stickers make it hard to sue for damages, but they don't stop idiocy or ignorance from causing terrible accidents to happen. Given the apparent addiction to suing anything that moves, the policy seems to be to protect the manufacturer legally.

Europe: There are far fewer lawsuits here. A "class action lawsuit" regarding the power of lawnmower motors would be ridiculed. While easy to denounce as "nanny-state" etc, the general policy seems to be more orientated around protecting the end-users where possible.

I for one would rather something comes with safety features that someone has put some thought into. If they're a PITA, I'll remove them - and blame myself if it causes me a problem.

Much like Germany, we in Sweden have a mandatory chimney-sweep visit each year. We're in the middle of re-lining our chimney, and it's the local sweep who'll be approving it and signing off on it.

Fewer house-fires, and insurance doesn't refuse to pay up if a chimney fire does cause damage as they know it's approved and properly cleaned.
Laws rules and regulations... I'm happy with them, the system works.

 

[_RaT_]

Much like the original question, It's never that simple

Our huge pond for example has depths from half a meter down to 3 meters. the bottom however is DEEP sludge. If you try to stand in the shallows you sink. If you were to dive into it I'm fairly sure you'd never come out again.... A kid that can swim may survive it, but they'd be far safer staying away from it.

With regards to the OP... I clearly live in Europe. I've not lived in the US, so I'm not really qualified to make a comparison, but the way I look at the difference goes a little bit like this.

USA: Warning stickers make it hard to sue for damages, but they don't stop idiocy or ignorance from causing terrible accidents to happen. Given the apparent addiction to suing anything that moves, the policy seems to be to protect the manufacturer legally.

Europe: There are far fewer lawsuits here. A "class action lawsuit" regarding the power of lawnmower motors would be ridiculed. While easy to denounce as "nanny-state" etc, the general policy seems to be more orientated around protecting the end-users where possible.

I for one would rather something comes with safety features that someone has put some thought into. If they're a PITA, I'll remove them - and blame myself if it causes me a problem.

Much like Germany, we in Sweden have a mandatory chimney-sweep visit each year. We're in the middle of re-lining our chimney, and it's the local sweep who'll be approving it and signing off on it.

Fewer house-fires, and insurance doesn't refuse to pay up if a chimney fire does cause damage as they know it's approved and properly cleaned.
Laws rules and regulations... I'm happy with them, the system works.

I am glad you are happy with that Nick, it seems the sensible thing for you and your comrades. Enjoy, all the best...

 

[SensibleNick]

I am glad you are happy with that Nick, it seems the sensible thing for you and your comrades. Enjoy, all the best...

Thanks.
It works for us, and we're not over-run with lawyers... so we do enjoy it
erm... Comrade?

Oh I see... we must be communists because we have a different system? How quaint

 

[_RaT_]

Thanks.
It works for us, and we're not over-run with lawyers... so we do enjoy it
erm... Comrade?

Oh I see... we must be communists because we have a different system? How quaint

Sorry Nick, we (me and my friends)use that term here amongst ourselves as a term of friendship, did not mean to imply the "C" word. I am curious however, do you guys have open fireplaces or are these word burning stove type fireplaces that have their chimneys cleaned. When you said re-lined it makes me think of an open fireplace.

 

[Sweden-Art]

Oh I see... we must be communists because we have a different system? How quaint

Spatziba comrade Nick! How his your communist tractor going?

I think the main thing with EU regulations is pure protectionism and a trade weapon. Its much harder for a non EU manufactured item to get E-marked then an EU manufactured. And it seems to work quite good. EU is not for instance like US are, in huge debt to China. Importing all kind of junk from China with loaned money from.....China. Making US manufactures to close down, cant compete with this cheap items without protectionism or trade fees.

 

[SensibleNick]

Sorry Nick, we (me and my friends)use that term here amongst ourselves as a term of friendship, did not mean to imply the "C" word. I am curious however, do you guys have open fireplaces or are these word burning stove type fireplaces that have their chimneys cleaned. When you said re-lined it makes me think of an open fireplace.

Phew... If that's the way you meant it, then there's no offence taken at all: Having been on the receiving end of a post that claimed "all Europeans are stupid" I was assuming the worst: sorry!

One of the reasons our fireplace needed re-lining was because the open fireplace and chimney were original and un-changed from when this house was built in 1890. To give a clearer idea of just how old that is... the Irish immigrants got voting rights in the USA only 4 years earlier!!

The house has settled a good deal since then, and smoke could go pretty much anywhere it wanted. Earlier this year we demolished the fireplace and dropped a stainless steel liner down it - and I'm just in the process of bricking in a snout at the bottom to allow us to put in our cast-iron free-standing wood-burner in place. :thumbsup: Far more efficient, takes up less space and is way more attractive.

All chimneys get cleaned here - metal-lined or concrete-lined.
Many houses have open fires, but a stand-alone "kamin" (sounds like Cam-een) is far more common - even though they're rarely the primary source of heat.

Considering the age of many of the houses and buildings here - many of them being "Pre-America" - it makes a lot of sense to take the extra care and time to get the sweeping done, checked and signed off.

As my pellet-burning boiler in the cellar has a similar 125mm stainless lining, I have my own chimney-sweeping setup.

Spatziba comrade Nick! How his your communist tractor going?

I think the main thing with EU regulations is pure protectionism and a trade weapon. Its much harder for a non EU manufactured item to get E-marked then an EU manufactured. And it seems to work quite good. EU is not for instance like US are, in huge debt to China. Importing all kind of junk from China with loaned money from.....China. Making US manufactures to close down, cant compete with this cheap items without protectionism or trade fees.

hahahaha Skit-Bra tack!

We're in danger of heading the same way you know... we're setting up manufacturing places in China, but it won't be long before the cost of getting things to high quality hits the Chinese industrial machine and costs start to rise. It'll balance out in the end, but not before many businesses suffer in the cooperate battle to get everything cheaper.

Oh well.. back to the garden

 

[_RaT_]

"One of the reasons our fireplace needed re-lining was because the open fireplace and chimney were original and un-changed from when this house was built in 1890. To give a clearer idea of just how old that is... the Irish immigrants got voting rights in the USA only 4 years earlier!! "

What, what???? they let the Irish vote here! :laughing:

We have a Waterford wood stove that works incredibly well. It is our primary source of heat. I have access to all the oak wood I want and use about 2 cords a season. It is no doubt a chore to get it, split it, stack it and bring it in the house but there is simply nothing like having heat from it. When we warm the house with it versus our natural gas heater, the house is always warmer even if its not if you know what I mean. :confused2:

 

[Iowachild]

I prefer the "common sense" approach rather then the nanny state concept of the European. In Europe, sometimes the bureaucrats are a bit too intrusive in the lives of the citizens (not just in safety).
I guess it depends if you want to control your own life or let some one else do it for you.
This topic has the potential of getting too political, so I'll end my response now.

AMEN!

 

[SensibleNick]

AMEN!

Was that with reference to the "it can get too political so I'll shut up" bit? Because I utterly agree with it :thumbsup:

Incase it wasn't though, When it comes to intrusiveness and comparing Europe to the USA.. Which country is it where the government sneakily passed a bill that allows phonecalls and E-mail to be logged and the kids have to go through metal detectors on the way into school?

Stones, Glass house... you know the rules

 

[SensibleNick]

We have a Waterford wood stove that works incredibly well. It is our primary source of heat. I have access to all the oak wood I want and use about 2 cords a season. It is no doubt a chore to get it, split it, stack it and bring it in the house but there is simply nothing like having heat from it. When we warm the house with it versus our natural gas heater, the house is always warmer even if its not if you know what I mean. :confused2:

I've got a stack of 1886 newspapers here... and most adverts are for steam-ship travel to the New Land... utterly fascinating to read. One of the headlines is "Irish Get Voting Rights"... Wonderful stuff.

I'm rather jealous of your wood supply! The south of Sweden is fairly sparse when it comes to woodland: in the North it's massively forested, but the old ship-building habits saw to it that trees became endangered.

I'd love to heat the house with wood that I've cut and split, but the reality is that I simply don't have the time. Heating with wood pellets (Willow grown in rotation on the fields as a well-earning crop - harvested and shredded, and waste wood from the sawmills in the north) is a renewable, cheap and easy way... I'm new to it, but I kinda like it