European vs US safety

[_RaT_]

As sweeping generalizations, with all their shortcomings;
No, I think the US approach seems to be to hide behind warning labels.
No, I think the European approach is not intrusive, it seems to be more a "safety by design" approach.

Warning, ,,,,,,, and a a lot of mumble about "including but not limited to property damage, severe personal injury, loss of life" (sometimes in that order).
Doesn't DO much.

My Caroni flail mower (US sale) lacks the side rails that are included in Europe.
At a guess they are just about wide enough to hit a leg/ankle before the cutters get over the toes.
Makes sense to me, but apparently not required by USDA, CPSC, or whoever.
Since it is a mower and only 1.9m wide it probably doesn't come under "Agriculture".
Since it goes behind a tractor, it probably doesn't come under "Consumer" either.
OTOH, my (US bought) unicycle HAD TO HAVE reflectors mounted in the spokes.
(makes Ya wonder)

Anyway, thanks for starting a safety related thread that doesn't ask how to defeat a safety interlock or report dismemberment - very unusual (-:

Sounds like a tractor operator issue as much as anything.

"Warning, Danger, Achtung" driving this flail mower over human beings could injure them. Or if its the operator of the tractor getting off and leaving the PTO engaged (and on modern tractors, the seat kill switch disconnected) and then placing said ankles toes etc under the spinning mower, maybe its natures little way off adding chlorine to the gene pool.

Step ladders have maybe 7 warning labels on them, what else can you do, require an operating permit? My nail gun actually has a picture of a guy in a hard hat with a nail gun pushed against the hard hat with a circle and a line through it. I'm not sure if they are saying "Do not use this nail gun on peoples heads" or "do not use this nail gun on someones head when someone is wearing a hard hat", either way, my common sense kicked in and I have yet to do either.

As I said, I don't advocate building unsafe stuff, but if your saying that the chute on Hazmats chipper looks terribly unsafe, make it 3 feet longer and then criticize the Euro model for allowing a long legged person from possibly getting his toes and maybe even ankles a trimming. My guess is that if your flail mower had guard rails on the sides, if I understand you correctly, some character might take that as its OK to drive the tractor or worse the mower right next to a life without regard since they will be safe. If thats the case my comment might question them being on a tractor, a car, heck even using a ladder with the labels peeled off or worse, one that has been painted. :confused2:

Given a choice between the two chippers, my personal preference would be for Hazmats. If I made them, I would want one with enough stickers to avoid having to even paint the thing so that when I inevitably end up in court I can show the injury attorney that on sticker 157 I warn against using the chipper to sharpen pencils. I'd have a chipper chute 7 feet long to ensure that all but the longest of (or is it tallest) NBA basketball players would be safe in the event they decided to crawl down it to retrieve the piece of gum that flew out of their mouth when they sneezed from the inevitable dust a chipper makes. :confused2: My market I am sure would be quite small although I am seeing some potential buyers here.

I'm not here to promote any unsafe bad design, but I will also say that most things having gotten dramatically safer than they ever were don't you think? Push mowers even without the side bars to prevent ankles and toes from getting under, riding mowers, all tractors sold here in the US today, nail guns, table saws, in fact I am trying to think of something that has gotten less safe. Not being a gun person I would guess that they are made better to prevent an accidental fire should it be dropped but that's for someone else with knowledge of guns to chime in on. I would suspect that pointing the end with the hole on it is still not a wise thing to do unless that is the intent.

By the way, is it the US that requires the shroud at the tractor PTO and not elsewhere? If so, chalk one up for the US, it makes hooking up the PTO at times a four letter word task however.

 

[Cidertom]

(Against my better judgement, I have decided to comment). Being in the Emergency Services and in a rural farming area I have noticed a few things that trouble me.

1: I am seeing a trend of "the (piece of equipment) wouldn't let me do something dangerous."

2: "There is so much safety built in I don't need to read the operators manual."

3: "it's not my fault"

I agree that some of the EU equipment has more safety features, but they are sometimes applied cookie cutter fashion rather than with forethought. From my view the EU seems to look at it : Someone might do this, it should be protected. The US version is someone did this we had to fix it.

The problem I am having is where safety device A interferes with safety device B. I had this on my JD 4520. The PTO shaft guard on the tractor interfered with the bell guard on the pto shaft. I am not going to have the shaft unprotected. Guess which one went.

I would say that in my 29 years as an EMT, the vast majority of these incidents would be prevented by RTFM.

 

[JCB]

Just to thow some fuel on the fire. Regarding taking reponsibility, yeah I'm responsible for myself but working around rotating equipment is dangerous and I don't mind a little extra safety.

Sometimes it's about more than just keeping hands out of harms way, it's also about catching a loose shoelace in a flail mower, getting dragged into a chipper. Yeah Pto covers make greasing U-joints a pita, but safety like security works best in layers. Call it common sense, nanny state, whatever....when gambling with my hands or life I don't see the risk/reward for acting tough. I'm fallible and I'll gladly take the extra layers of safety. Some won't.

 

[Cidertom]

And then there is the safety issues that no equipment can overcome.
YouTube - funny digger accident

 

[dave1949]

And then there is the safety issues that no equipment can overcome.
YouTube - funny digger accident

Have you ever thought about things you did as a kid - and realize you are lucky to be alive with both eyes and all fingers?
Dave.

 

[Reg]

And then there is the safety issues that no equipment can overcome.
YouTube - funny digger accident

The KEY is supposed to be the safety item - of course it has to be kept out of the wrong hands ^--^

 

[_RaT_]

Just to thow some fuel on the fire. Regarding taking reponsibility, yeah I'm responsible for myself but working around rotating equipment is dangerous and I don't mind a little extra safety.

Sometimes it's about more than just keeping hands out of harms way, it's also about catching a loose shoelace in a flail mower, getting dragged into a chipper. Yeah Pto covers make greasing U-joints a pita, but safety like security works best in layers. Call it common sense, nanny state, whatever....when gambling with my hands or life I don't see the risk/reward for acting tough. I'm fallible and I'll gladly take the extra layers of safety. Some won't.

Curious how long your shoelaces are. When your on the tractor seat can your untied shoelace get all the way back to the flail mower or you mowing that close to other people with not only the mower but the tractor as well? If so, you have already violated a safety rule. Perhaps anyone else doing this should consider taking some safety courses not only to protect themselves but those around them.

As you can see, I am playing somewhat of a devils advocate here. Keeping anyone safe should always be the goal. As litigious as we have become, I think most companies are doing a pretty good job. Careless people will continue to figure out ways to do some of the dumbest things and we all pay for it.

 

[_RaT_]

Have you ever thought about things you did as a kid - and realize you are lucky to be alive with both eyes and all fingers?
Dave.

Plenty of times and I suppose its why I try to diligently watch my 8 year old. Electricity being a big concern, invisible death as I consider it. When I am on the tractor, I don't allow him or others near the whirling 6' flail mower, PTO drive line or for that matter, anywhere around the tractor where he could get run over. Not sure if I ever read about not running the tractor over little kids in the manual, I have developed an acute amount of common sense that helped me figure that out without reading a manual or a label. If there are any safety questions please ask away. I will do my best to answer them. :thumbsup:

 

[mjncad]

The KEY is supposed to be the safety item - of course it has to be kept out of the wrong hands ^--^

The parent is the PRIMARY safety item in my opinion. Yes, I did stupid stuff as a kid too, and I'm lucky to be in one piece. Some of my contemporaries did even stupider things and paid the price for it, and in a couple of cases...the ultimate price.

Plenty of times and I suppose its why I try to diligently watch my 8 year old. Electricity being a big concern, invisible death as I consider it. When I am on the tractor, I don't allow him or others near the whirling 6' flail mower, PTO drive line or for that matter, anywhere around the tractor where he could get run over. Not sure if I ever read about not running the tractor over little kids in the manual, I have developed an acute amount of common sense that helped me figure that out without reading a manual or a label. If there are any safety questions please ask away. I will do my best to answer them. :thumbsup:

When I used to mow weeds as a sideline, I told homeowners that I would not start mowing until their kids and pets were safely indoors.

 

[pat32rf]

I feel it boils down to the old question- Should you tell your kids to stay away from the water, or teach them to swim?