EV owners of today and tomorrow

[In.the.Piñons]

0.05 including distribution charges, transmission fees, purchased power cost adjustments, meter fees, etc. ? Our coop base rate is 0.090926 and by the time all is said and done it’s at 0.140876. Time of use metering is slightly different depending on summer/winter schedule

Those are all fixed costs. We have them regardless and having the EV doesn't change them. So there's nothing disingenuous about accounting for the EV's energy costs @ 5c per kwh.

This might blow your mind, but we're going to be saving on heating costs this winter by heating some spaces with off peak electricity. Without an EV (you have to prove ownership to the co-op) off peak is 10c a kwh. So ANY electricity that you use between 11pm and 7am is 5c for EV owners vs 10c for non-EV owners.

Put the dryer on before going to bed? Yep, save money there too when doing bath towels etc.

So surely we should be busy adding those cost savings into our spreadsheet if we want to know the TRUE cost of EV ownership, right?

Anyway 5c or 10c or 25c a kwh, we're still coming out ahead on energy cost vs gas.

 

[D&D]

Those are all fixed costs. We have them regardless and having the EV doesn't change them. So there's nothing disingenuous about accounting for the EV's energy costs @ 5c per kwh.

This might blow your mind, but we're going to be saving on heating costs this winter by heating some spaces with off peak electricity. Without an EV (you have to prove ownership to the co-op) off peak is 10c a kwh. So ANY electricity that you use between 11pm and 7am is 5c for EV owners vs 10c for non-EV owners.

Put the dryer on before going to bed? Yep, save money there too when doing bath towels etc.

So surely we should be busy adding those cost savings into our spreadsheet if we want to know the TRUE cost of EV ownership, right?

Anyway 5c or 10c or 25c a kwh, we're still coming out ahead on energy cost vs gas.

They aren’t fixed costs when they are added by the KWh.
A little digging on my coop turned up this.

customers who enroll their Tesla in Off-Peak Savings and charge their vehicles during off-peak hours when at home. This rate will only be applied to electric vehicle charging.
Summer - Off peak: $0.07442
Winter - Off peak: $0.07794

Wonder what kind of subsidy this is and how everyone else is helping pay for it.

 

[DarkBlack]

We get off peak electricity at 0.05c a kwh. So it only cost about $5 to go about 250-60 miles as long as we are charging at home. Which is 99.99% of the time. That's only 0.02c a mile in electricity or 1/10 the cost of a 20mpg gas car or 1/5 if you've got something that gets 40mpg.

Well, you certainly have an unusual electric company situation if you have zero added costs to the 5 cents.

For others like myself, my electric rate is just under 25 cents, so 5X what you seem to pay. Our family car gets around 36 mpg. Gasoline at the moment around here is around $3.10 a gallon which =$21.50 to go 250 miles.

Using your EV efficiency number , that would be $25 for your EV here (more expensive).

It obviously depends on where in the country you live, as to which vehicle type is cheapest to power.

 

[Grumpycat]

Their little mini ecoboost in some of the escapes and eco sport cars utilizes a belt to drive the oil pump. Sister in laws car cratered the engine at 90,000 miles.

Superstitious Mechanics blame the belt without realizing Ford uses belt drive oil pumps in most all of their current engines including the 2.7L EcoBoost. The original 2015 engine used a chain but the 2017 update added port injection in addition to direct injection, tweaked a few things, and replaced the oil drive chain with a belt.

OHV Honda utility engines such as found on lawnmowers, generators, etc, all have belt drive overhead camshaft in oil. Pretty darn reliable.

Teardown I saw of a tiny 1.1L EcoBoost with failed oil drive had a disintegrated drive pulley. While the investigator didn't like the appearance of the belt it doesn't explain how the pulley disintegrated.

If belts are failing then it is not because they are belts but because the material used was incorrect.

 

[Grumpycat]

Yes speaking of the fool Trad.... he sent me another private message today to try to convince me the earth is flat, the funniest was that " water has never been shown to stick to a spinning ball" ......

Water does stick to a spinning ball.

But, how does one explain gravity if the Earth is flat?

 

[Grumpycat]

They aren’t fixed costs when they are added by the KWh.
A little digging on my coop turned up this.

customers who enroll their Tesla in Off-Peak Savings and charge their vehicles during off-peak hours when at home. This rate will only be applied to electric vehicle charging.
Summer - Off peak: $0.07442
Winter - Off peak: $0.07794

Wonder what kind of subsidy this is and how everyone else is helping pay for it.

Everything is a subsidy with you, isn't it?

Utilities have long practiced discounted nighttime rates to large consumers and only recently implemented TOU billing for residential customers with the advent of Smart Meters.

The expansion of street lights came with the realization local governments could give the utility tax breaks in lieu of paying for electricity. The utility realized it had to keep power plants hot all night to be ready for morning demand. You've heard me say time and time again how we have a 50% generating capacity surplus at night. So in the case of street lights the utility could get a tax break for very little cost.

Same applies to industrial users. Large power users would go into high production at night when the utility company would lower the kWh cost. The utility company sells power they would not otherwise be able to sell, doesn't "stress the supposedly delicate 'grid'", is easy money.

The whole point of TOU billing is to charge more when electric power is scarce, and charge less when it is plentiful, encouraging one to shift one's consumption without requiring the utility to build more generating capacity.

There is no "subsidy" only increased profits for the utility company by shifting consumption to night.

 

[wawajake]

Grumpy you obviously live in a more unique area where the electric utility provider has not got greedy yet. Here in Canada, ( Ontario) various utilities provide the power to the province, the majority of it is Nuclear, next would be Hydro Dams, and third would be natural gas, all our coal plants were closed or replaced with gas a decade a go. We have also had time of use pricing for at least a decade, ( off peak 8cents, mid peak 12cents, on peak 18cents) ....and distribution costs tied to how much kwh used, and taxes including a carbon tax tied to how much kwh you used. Now I suspect in next 10 years most North American utilities will use this model already seen all over the world. Especially unfortunately considering the probable outcome of your fall election with Kamela leading by then ( I hope not but ?) ....these utilities were given this flexibility by left wing governments here and coming to a state near you probably too.

 

[Grumpycat]

Yes, my electric utility is "unique", as in, "TVA".

TVA generates the power then sells to local utilities in charge of the delivery. The local utility signs an exclusive contract to buy power only from TVA. The local utility adds their cost of operation when billing the customer. No pretending there is a separate cost of operating "the grid" vs generation. No pretending one can buy power from one source and pay another to deliver. No fantasy of "managed competition."

The odd thing about this is to put PV produced power on the grid and be compensated I have to have a contract with TVA, not my local utility.

 

[Grumpycat]

Grumpy you obviously live in a more unique area where the electric utility provider has not got greedy yet. Here in Canada, ( Ontario) various utilities provide the power to the province, the majority of it is Nuclear, next would be Hydro Dams, and third would be natural gas, all our coal plants were closed or replaced with gas a decade a go. We have also had time of use pricing for at least a decade, ( off peak 8cents, mid peak 12cents, on peak 18cents) ....and distribution costs tied to how much kwh used, and taxes including a carbon tax tied to how much kwh you used. Now I suspect in next 10 years most North American utilities will use this model already seen all over the world. Especially unfortunately considering the probable outcome of your fall election with Kamela leading by then ( I hope not but ?) ....these utilities were given this flexibility by left wing governments here and coming to a state near you probably too.

Well, what can I say? Is Canada and you got what you voted for.

Commie-la is not leading any but in the leftist polls. Republicans notoriously do not answer our phones when pollsters are calling.

 

[DarkBlack]

I helped get my company buying directly from the grid. We became essentially, an electric generation company with a negative output.
Pricing changes every 5 minutes. I’ve seen it go over 45 cents a kWh during grid deficiency periods, to zero cents per kWh during nighttime overages. But it is never actually free because we still pay a kWh distribution charge on the “free” nighttime periods when they occur. Those 0 cent periods only happen for about 15 minutes or so then creep back up.