Buying Advice Evaluating options for a compact

NYCheese · May 6, 2018

First post on here, but I've been reading a ton on the forums, reading reviews, etc. I'm shopping for a new compact to handle a variety of tasks on the property I recently purchased. It's 37.5 acres of upstate NY hillside. Most of it is wooded, and I do plan on harvesting firewood. My primary needs are:

Gravel driveway maintenance and snow removal.
Clearing overgrowth and lots of goldenrod/ragweed (rotary cutter)
Firewood harvesting and hauling (I have a small wagon for hauling cut wood back to the house)
Installing better drainage in multiple areas of the property
Building/grading trails through the forest to aid in timber harvesting.

Implements needed:
FEL
rotary cutter
box blade
backhoe (this could be purchased in a year or two, if it breaks my budget currently)
front snow blade (same as backhoe...I can use the FEL for snow in the interim)
grapple (again, this can wait, but would be very nice to have at some point)

One other implement I've been considering is either a mid mount mower, or a rear finish mower. I currently have a small JD zero turn, but it struggles on some of the slopes here. I don't know if I want to be mowing with a larger tractor, but my current mower just isn't heavy or powerful enough.

All that said, I've looked at a few machines, all under 26hp, to avoid the added costs of the new emissions regs. My current frontrunner is the Kubota B2650hst. I also looked at the L2501, but the B felt like a much nicer machine, even though it is a bit smaller and lighter. I'm waiting on quotes from 2 area dealers, but both of them told me in person, right around the 30k mark, for the B2650, with FEL, backhoe, 5' rotary cutter, 5' box blade. One of them was also going to include a mid mount mower in the quote. No grapple or snow blade will be in either quote for the time being.

I really liked this machine. It was comfortable, not too loud or too much vibration, I think it's the right size for what I'm looking to do. But...I want to be smart about this and comparison shop. Having a little trouble online finding what models from other brands would be the most direct comparisons. I'm thinking about looking at Mahindra max26xl, Kioti ck2510 or 2610, Yanmar 424, but having not seen them in person yet, I don't know if I'm even looking at the right models to compare to the B2650. Anyone have any opinions or suggestions on what else I should be looking at? I have most brands available within a couple hour drive (LS and TYM are the furthest away, but still do-able). I might very well wind up buying the Kubota, (I really liked it), but if I could get something comparable at a better price point, it might leave more room to buy all of the implements on the list.

Sid Post · May 6, 2018

The Kubota L2501 4WD is what I think you really want. Why? Slopes and backhoe.

The wider stance of the L2501 is a real asset on slopes along with 4WD. Kubota also has a 0% interest 84-month offer right now which is really attractive if you aren't an all cash buyer.

You will want a backhoe that can lift and reach farther so, that's an easy one for an L over a B/BX (or similar). I say this after running a 35HP Kioti with Backhoe and wishing I could lift heavier wood from a bad location or dig harder, deeper and/or farther.

The same goes for an 'L' sized loader. With a skid steer set of pallet forks, it is a real winner for chores in general. Plus, moving dirt (or snow) with a bigger bucket and higher lift capacity lets you finish faster.

Larger tires are also a factor many overlook. On unprepared ground, the L tire size will easily roll over ruts, washouts, branches, etc. without tossing you around nearly as much as a smaller tire size tractor.

In the end, total prices are very similar for all your options assuming similar specs. The larger tractor could be an issue around buildings and around trees that a smaller tractor might navigate more easily though so, it really depends on your intended use and landscape as to which is really best.

Finally, don't get suckered into lusting after something sitting on the dealers lot with a few bells and whistles that aren't really needed for your use. You are looking for a "tool" to get a job done not, a "show piece" to brag about in front of your favorite watering hole.

mddorange · May 6, 2018

:welcome:
To the TBN forum Mr. Cheese. You have come to the right place as we love to spend other people's money.

When I went into the dealer to purchase, I was looking at a "B" just like you. After my dealer heard how I would be using it, he said I would be back in a year to get a bigger tractor so I followed his advice and went with an '"L." Not only am I glad I did, but now I wish it had been an even bigger L. The more stability and weight on the hills is a must. The better lift for FEL working with trees is a must also. Yes, I have a 5' medium duty rotary cutter, and a 5' box blade also.

No matter what you get, it must have filled tires.

Keep us informed as you go along.

NYCheese · May 6, 2018

The L2501 is actually what I had in mind when I went to the first dealer to look. The L is like 800lbs heavier, which I see as a plus, especially in the winter. The single biggest turnoff for me on the L was the seat. I wasn't really concerned with the controls not being quite as nice as the B, but I drove both machines in a big yard behind the dealer, and the L was a MUCH rougher ride, and just not comfortable. The L they had me drive was just a bare tractor though, the B had a FEL and box blade on it, so I don't know how much that could've changed the ride comfort. But since that's 2 of you suggesting the L, maybe I should go back and have another look.

If looking at the L, I assume the models I mentioned from other brands wouldn't really compare? Can you guys suggest what else to look at there? I'm off all this week, and wanted to start test driving tomorrow. Kubota and Mahindra are right here in town, Kioti and Yanmar about 30mins away.

jeff9366 · May 6, 2018

NYCheese

I recently purchased 37.5 acres of upstate NY hillside. Most of it is wooded.
It would be helpful to know total acres NOT wooded that you will operate tractor over.
Consider adding rear wheel spacers if you decide on a light tractor.
Heavier tractors have designed in adjustable rear wheel widths.

My instinctive reaction to seeing a property size of 37.5 HILLY acres is a 4,000 pound bare weight tractor.
VIDEO: Kubota Grand L Series VS. Kubota MX Series - YouTube

Gravel driveway maintenance and snow removal.
How long is the driveway? How much snow, how often? Worst snow in last five years?
Will this be your residence, so you have to get out to work? Or a weekend/retirement property?

Clearing overgrowth and lots of goldenrod/ragweed (rotary cutter)
And a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment.
VIDEO: ratchet rake brush clearing - YouTube

Firewood harvesting and hauling (I have a small wagon for hauling cut wood back to the house)
Photo #1, #2
Most, however, would use FEL bucket, sometimes with forks.
Other Photos.

Installing better drainage in multiple areas of the property.
Agricultural tile? Or simply ripping compacted soil? Other?

Building/grading trails through the forest to aid in timber harvesting.
Chainsaws, Ratchet Rake, Rotary Cutter, Box Blade.

Implements needed:
FEL
rotary cutter
box blade
backhoe (this could be purchased in a year or two, if it breaks my budget currently)
$7,000 You have not expressed a task necessitating a $7,000 Backhoe. If you operate it ten hours per year, it is quite expensive.

front snow blade (same as backhoe...I can use the FEL for snow in the interim)
grapple (again, this can wait, but would be very nice to have at some point)

One other implement I've been considering is either a mid mount mower, or a rear finish mower. I currently have a small JD zero turn, but it struggles on some of the slopes here. I don't know if I want to be mowing with a larger tractor, but my current mower just isn't heavy or powerful enough.
L2501 is not available with mid-PTO.

All that said, I've looked at a few machines, all under 26hp, to avoid the added costs of the new emissions regs.
Twenty-five horsepower is the demarcation point, not twenty-six horsepower.
Are you considering an open station tractor or a cab tractor? Cabs weigh 500 to 600 pounds.

My current frontrunner is the Kubota B2650hst.
I also looked at the L2501, but the B felt like a much nicer machine, even though it is a bit smaller and lighter.
The B2650 and B3350 are deluxe models, like Kubota "Grand Ls".
B2650 has twenty-six horsepower, complete Tier IV emission controls.
VIDEO (2): Kubota B5-Series tractors, B265 & B335. Review and functions | Messick's - YouTube
How to clear snow using your loader - Kubota B265 Cab Compact Tractor - YouTube

L2501 is a sparely equipped "Standard L".

I'm waiting on quotes from 2 area dealers, but both of them told me in person, right around the 30k mark, for the B2650, with FEL, backhoe, 5' rotary cutter, 5' box blade. One of them was also going to include a mid mount mower in the quote. No grapple or snow blade will be in either quote for the time being.
I really liked this machine. It was comfortable, not too loud or too much vibration, I think it's the right size.

But...I want to be smart about this and comparison shop. Having a little trouble online finding what models from other brands would be the most direct comparisons.

Shop by bare tractor weight. B2650 open station is 1,786 pounds; with cab 2,293 pounds.

With a Backhoe and Cab a B2650 will not have enough power for hills, at least not for me. Nor will L2501 with FEL and Backhoe have sufficient power for hills unless you are very patient. Few are patient after week #2 of operating.
Consider B3350 with 33-horsepower; open station 1,896 pounds; with cab 2,447 pounds.

I'm thinking about shopping Mahindra max26xl, Kioti ck2510 or 2610, Yanmar 424, but having not seen them in person yet, I don't know if I'm even looking at the right models to compare to the B2650. Anyone have any opinions or suggestions on what else I should be looking at? I have most brands available within a couple hour drive (LS and TYM are the furthest away, but still do-able). I might very well wind up buying the Kubota, (I really liked it), but if I could get something comparable at a better price point, it might leave more room to buy all of the implements on the list.

Shop by bare tractor weight. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

Shop Yanmar YT235.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you eat more depreciation on the implements than on the tractor. Passing time with multiple implement browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

NYCheese · May 6, 2018

jeff9366 said:
NYCheese

It would be helpful to know total acres NOT wooded that you will operate tractor over.

My instinctive reaction to seeing a property size of 37.5 HILLY acres is a 4,000 pound bare weight tractor.

I'd guess less than 10 acres that isn't wooded, but most of that is overgrown with different vegetation. Nothing very big at least, maybe some 1" sapling scattered around, nothing a rotary cutter can't handle.

How long is the driveway? How much snow, how often? Worst snow in last five years?
Will this be your residence, so you have to get out to work? Or a weekend/retirement property?

driveway is approx 150ft, with a parking area big enough for 3-4 vehicles, all gravel. Snow varies a lot up here, I think the yearly avg is 80-100 inches. Last year we got a big one that was 32 inches in a day, but the last time we had anything like that was 30+ years ago.

And a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment.
VIDEO: ratchet rake brush clearing - YouTube

Photo #1

Agricultural tile? Or simply ripping compacted soil? Other?

Haven't planned this out yet really, so not sure exactly what it'll be. I know for certain that I need to dig a couple ditches, maybe a french drain type solution, to keep some of the spring runoff out of the yard, and further away from the house. Will probably involve putting a culvert under the driveway as well.

Chainsaws, Ratchet Rake, Rotary Cutter, Box Blade.

L2501 is not available with mid-PTO.

Good to know, but this isn't really a driving factor in my decision making. I do need something other than my JD mower, but I don't want to tear up my yard mowing with a big tractor. Just something I thought I'd look into a little bit.

Twenty-five horsepower is the demarcation point, not twenty-six horsepower.
Are you considering an open station tractor or a cab tractor? Cabs weigh 500 to 600 pounds.

I was under the impression the B2650 did not have the new emissions stuff. One of the dealers actually pointed out the difference on the hood between the 2650 and 3350 (the 3350 has a raised hood scoop to make room for the extra components). I haven't ruled out a cab completely, but I'm thinking since I'll be spending lots of time in the forest, the cab would just get in the way. It'd be nice in the winter though.

The B2650 and B3350 are deluxe models, like Kubota "Grand Ls". L2501 is a sparely equipped "Standard L".
B2650 has twenty-six horsepower, complete Tier IV emission controls.
VIDEO (2): Kubota B5-Series tractors, B265 & B335. Review and functions | Messick's - YouTube
How to clear snow using your loader - Kubota B265 Cab Compact Tractor - YouTube

Shop by bare tractor weight. B2650 open station is 1,786 pounds; with cab 2,293 pounds.

With a Backhoe and Cab a B2650 will have BARELY enough power for hills. Nor will L2501 with FEL and Backhoe have sufficient power for hills unless you are very patient. Few are patient after week #2.
Consider B3350 open station 1,896 pounds; with cab 2,447 pounds.

Yeah, I don't like the sounds of that! One of the dealers was telling me that once you pass the 26hp mark (he said 26hp, not 25, I don't know), that there's a significant price jump due to the new emissions equipment, and that 26hp would suit my needs well. Perhaps he was just trying to sell a specific machine, but the 2nd dealer didn't really tell me anything different, so I don't know.

Shop by bare tractor weight. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

Shop Yanmar YT235.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR
Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you eat more depreciation on the implements than on the tractor. Passing time with multiple implement browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

I'm definitely trying to get the right machine here, so I don't have to sell anything in the future. I'll spend some time this week looking at the other brands and see where I end up. Maybe I'll go back to one of the Kubota shops too, and look at the L again. I don't want to get something too light or underpowered. The B2650 really felt right to me when I was sitting on it....but it's impossible to compare driving around a flat empty field vs what it would be like on my property.

jeff9366 · May 6, 2018

The "regulars" posting here know more than 99.44% of tractor salesmen you will meet at a dealer.

jeff9366 said:
"It would be helpful to know total acres NOT wooded that you will operate tractor over.

I'd guess less than 10 acres that isn't wooded, but most of that is overgrown with different vegetation. Nothing very big at least, maybe some 1" sapling scattered around, nothing a rotary cutter can't handle."

Consider the B3350 in lieu of B2650. B3350 may do for ten acres. You may want to dismount Backhoe when anticipating hill work.

Also consider my model, L3560/HST/PLUS, 3,494 bare tractor open station, 4-WD, 37-horsepower.

Backhoe BH77 for B2650/B3350 weighs 850 pounds. BH77 weight will give you traction but there is only so much 26-horsepower can accomplish going up hills.

B2650 bare tractor, open station 1,786 + BH77/850 pounds + LA534A/820 pounds = 3,456 pounds.
There is only so much 26-horsepower can do.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

NYCheese · May 6, 2018

jeff9366 said:
OPEN STATION or CAB? We need to know.

The "regulars" posting here know more than 99.44% of tractor salesmen you will meet at a dealer.

Consider the B3350 in lieu of B2650.

Sorry, thought I answered that, kinda got lost in the formatting with the quote though. Probably ROPS. Cab sounds nice for the winter, but a large part of my use is going to be in the forest, and I think a cab would just get in the way, and break windows.

I will look at the 3350 if I go back to Kubota. Unfortunately the local dealer didn't have that one, but the other dealer is only 40mins away.

moship · May 6, 2018

NYCheese said:
I will look at the 3350 if I go back to Kubota. Unfortunately the local dealer didn't have that one, but the other dealer is only 40mins away.

You might want to do some research on the B3350 regarding issues with regeneration. Many folks have had issues and some dealers wouldn't even sell them. Some claim Kubota has fixed the issues. I have no first hand knowledge if it is fixed or not and just want you to investigate before considering purchasing. Look in the Kubota forums.

A Grand L tractor sounds more appropriate for your intended use.

Tractorable · May 6, 2018

Woods and grapple and hills to me means you need a tractor with some weight, 3000+ lbs bare tractor would be good. Cutting and moving trees requires a good amount of loader lift ability and enough weight to counterbalance it.

I'd be less concerned with tier 4 emissions and more concerned with getting a machine that's going to serve you well long term. A $30K budget can get you a lot of tractor.