IXLR8
Veteran Member
5/8" does make more sense, I think that is what is on my JD Z-turn. My question/point was, is it the correct width belt?
Expecting too much from my frontmount mower?
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I have a couple GH's, and my experience with them is just as Rob described earlier. I mow tall fescue, and use them in rough areas of tall orchard grass at times, but they will slow the engine and never slip a belt as far as I can tell.
So I looked at a few things on the parts sites, and found my 700's share the same belts and sheave part numbers as the 900's. The sheave spring arrangement is different between the two though. So I ran out to the barn to compare the rear ends of my 722DT6 and 725DT6 to the photo of your 930. I think you might have the wrong sheave on yours. As someone else pointed out, your belt sits low in the sheave (idler pulley) and on both of mine, the sheave is much shallower and the belt sits with its outer surface about flush with the rim of the pulley. I don't know why that would have been replaced on such a low hour mower, but it is definitely not the same part as shown in the parts diagrams or what's on my older or newer 700's. See this diagram Grasshopper 93�D2 PTO Shaft Clutch Assembly 2�11 Mower Parts Diagrams- The Mower Shop, Inc. and look at item number 20, part number 415610.
The belts on mine are not as tight as I would have expected, and have about 1/2" deflection. I guess it could be that you have the wrong belts on there too, but mine are not very large at all. That would make more sense than having the wrong sheave.
And finally, maybe it is the extra power of that engine compared to mine, coupled with the larger deck (mine are 61") that allows the engine to 'overrun' the belt design in really heavy grass. Either way, I'm surprised you are having the issue. I'm curious to see what your Grasshopper dealer finds out. They can talk to GH for answers too.
So I looked at a few things on the parts sites, and found my 700's share the same belts and sheave part numbers as the 900's. The sheave spring arrangement is different between the two though. So I ran out to the barn to compare the rear ends of my 722DT6 and 725DT6 to the photo of your 930. I think you might have the wrong sheave on yours. As someone else pointed out, your belt sits low in the sheave (idler pulley) and on both of mine, the sheave is much shallower and the belt sits with its outer surface about flush with the rim of the pulley. I don't know why that would have been replaced on such a low hour mower, but it is definitely not the same part as shown in the parts diagrams or what's on my older or newer 700's. See this diagram Grasshopper 93�D2 PTO Shaft Clutch Assembly 2�11 Mower Parts Diagrams- The Mower Shop, Inc. and look at item number 20, part number 415610.
The belts on mine are not as tight as I would have expected, and have about 1/2" deflection. I guess it could be that you have the wrong belts on there too, but mine are not very large at all. That would make more sense than having the wrong sheave.
And finally, maybe it is the extra power of that engine compared to mine, coupled with the larger deck (mine are 61") that allows the engine to 'overrun' the belt design in really heavy grass. Either way, I'm surprised you are having the issue. I'm curious to see what your Grasshopper dealer finds out. They can talk to GH for answers too.
Last edited:
boggen
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riding out the teeth of the belt ouch. and multiple flat spots.
with others, belt rids up on the sides, not the bottom of the teeth of the belt.
the teeth act more like "structural support" for the belt. and there be some gap between bottom of teeth and inside diameter of pulley. other words the teeth help hold the belt from slipping all the way into the inner diameter of the pulley, along with keeping the belt within the groves of the pulleys. but most of the work is done at the edges of the belt itself. not the teeth.
if belt is allowed to slide all the way into the pulley inside diameter. the belt will physical bend more, creating more heat build up within the belt. causing it to stretch more, more heat and stretching = loose belt that will burn itself up causing flat spots.
kinda wondering cross referencing part numbers and there was a mistake.
============
you noted bearings were replaced. and second guessing bearings were installed correctly....
looking at diagrams others have posted. double check alignment of the PTO shaft and the bearings holding the shaft in place to make sure bottom pulley/shaft is running true/level with the other 2 pulleys. and that the bottom shaft/pulley does not pull back and forth (slop within the shaft/bearings/pulley), i would go as far as, checking with deck fully down, and then fully raised. to see of the bottom pulley stays aligned.
would also check the correct placement of the idler pulley. looks like there is some washers, that could be mis-placed, and assembled wrong, causing idler pulley not to be in line with the other 2 pulleys.
while above 2 paragraphs most likely nill. might as well double check.
with others, belt rids up on the sides, not the bottom of the teeth of the belt.
the teeth act more like "structural support" for the belt. and there be some gap between bottom of teeth and inside diameter of pulley. other words the teeth help hold the belt from slipping all the way into the inner diameter of the pulley, along with keeping the belt within the groves of the pulleys. but most of the work is done at the edges of the belt itself. not the teeth.
if belt is allowed to slide all the way into the pulley inside diameter. the belt will physical bend more, creating more heat build up within the belt. causing it to stretch more, more heat and stretching = loose belt that will burn itself up causing flat spots.
kinda wondering cross referencing part numbers and there was a mistake.
============
you noted bearings were replaced. and second guessing bearings were installed correctly....
looking at diagrams others have posted. double check alignment of the PTO shaft and the bearings holding the shaft in place to make sure bottom pulley/shaft is running true/level with the other 2 pulleys. and that the bottom shaft/pulley does not pull back and forth (slop within the shaft/bearings/pulley), i would go as far as, checking with deck fully down, and then fully raised. to see of the bottom pulley stays aligned.
would also check the correct placement of the idler pulley. looks like there is some washers, that could be mis-placed, and assembled wrong, causing idler pulley not to be in line with the other 2 pulleys.
while above 2 paragraphs most likely nill. might as well double check.
hawkeye08
Elite Member
Sounds like the first incident overloaded the PTO setup, then the dealer repair did not restore it. If I had to guess, I would say the wrong belts are being used. Width, length, angle, material are all critical for long term reliability.
I cut the lawn last night, only a week since it was mowed last and noticed some windrowing.. pulled into shop up on ramps and cleaned out the underside of deck. I knew the blades were sharp but it looked and sounded like the grass did not have anywhere to go.. Worked like a champ, back to mowing...
I cut the lawn last night, only a week since it was mowed last and noticed some windrowing.. pulled into shop up on ramps and cleaned out the underside of deck. I knew the blades were sharp but it looked and sounded like the grass did not have anywhere to go.. Worked like a champ, back to mowing...
Thanks for the additional replies. Been tied up at work and hadn't had a chance to see them. All good ideas. I suspect the same thing as hawkeye08 - I overloaded the belts in the Fall, and then the dealer did not restore it. I hadn't thought of a bearing installation error, but I will keep it in mind.
Here's an update: i contacted the Service Dept at the main GH site. I got a response within 24 hrs. Here is what they said:
I would recommend checking the clutch belt idler spring. Replace if you feel tension is not sufficient.
Also check the idler pulley and the double groove sheave on the power shaft. Viewing these from the side, you should see a ‘V’ shape in the grooves. If even one groove is wallowed, a new belt will slip, resulting in belt failure. Once one belt fails, the other will also fail due to excessive load.
Check whether the deck or the power shaft under the tractor is binding, resulting in excess load for the clutch belts.
Have your dealer call the service department if the cause is not found.
I spoke with my local dealer and send him the message from GH. He was very accommodating. He agreed to pick up and deliver and replace belts at no cost to me. He said he would charge me parts and change the idler pulley, spring, and sheave. He said there was a bit of wear on the clutch (grooved) and left the decision on replacement up to me. I decided to replace it so that everything on the back was new. He said he would give me a break on the labor fees. He said the mechanic looked at him like he had four heads when he asked the mechanic about the power shaft binding.
Hopefully I will have it back by the weekend, and I will then post a follow up. Thanks again so much for all the excellent advice.
Bob
Here's an update: i contacted the Service Dept at the main GH site. I got a response within 24 hrs. Here is what they said:
I would recommend checking the clutch belt idler spring. Replace if you feel tension is not sufficient.
Also check the idler pulley and the double groove sheave on the power shaft. Viewing these from the side, you should see a ‘V’ shape in the grooves. If even one groove is wallowed, a new belt will slip, resulting in belt failure. Once one belt fails, the other will also fail due to excessive load.
Check whether the deck or the power shaft under the tractor is binding, resulting in excess load for the clutch belts.
Have your dealer call the service department if the cause is not found.
I spoke with my local dealer and send him the message from GH. He was very accommodating. He agreed to pick up and deliver and replace belts at no cost to me. He said he would charge me parts and change the idler pulley, spring, and sheave. He said there was a bit of wear on the clutch (grooved) and left the decision on replacement up to me. I decided to replace it so that everything on the back was new. He said he would give me a break on the labor fees. He said the mechanic looked at him like he had four heads when he asked the mechanic about the power shaft binding.
Hopefully I will have it back by the weekend, and I will then post a follow up. Thanks again so much for all the excellent advice.
Bob
Coyote machine
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Is it possible they replaced just the belts and the bearings they said they replaced weren't done, possibly resulting in ongoing wobble of an idler pulley and the excessive wear and flat spots in the newly replaced belts, along with their premature failure?
What bearing(s)were they supposed to have replaced last Fall when you gave it to them to fix the issue?
Did they give you pulleys or bearings that had been replaced at the time?
Though 275 hours is not a lot of hours, they aren't YOUR hours on the machine; so the damage could have already been done to the drivetrain, and is now showing up on your watch. If the prior owner beat it to death, there could easily be damaged pulleys that can't take the stress, even with new belts, and the cycle started before you took over just keeps repeating.
I'd send those pics to GH guy you spoke with and see what he says is likely cause of the particular type of wear/failure you are seeing.
Also, if dealer replaced the belts with what was already on the machine they could be the wrong size, sidewall profile,(height) in the pulley, etc.
I'd want everything verified and all replaced parts returned for discussion and inspection with the mechanic/dealer.
What bearing(s)were they supposed to have replaced last Fall when you gave it to them to fix the issue?
Did they give you pulleys or bearings that had been replaced at the time?
Though 275 hours is not a lot of hours, they aren't YOUR hours on the machine; so the damage could have already been done to the drivetrain, and is now showing up on your watch. If the prior owner beat it to death, there could easily be damaged pulleys that can't take the stress, even with new belts, and the cycle started before you took over just keeps repeating.
I'd send those pics to GH guy you spoke with and see what he says is likely cause of the particular type of wear/failure you are seeing.
Also, if dealer replaced the belts with what was already on the machine they could be the wrong size, sidewall profile,(height) in the pulley, etc.
I'd want everything verified and all replaced parts returned for discussion and inspection with the mechanic/dealer.
It sounds like you're on the right track. I'm impressed with GH's quick response to you. Instead of just saying "Ask your dealer" they gave a list of possible solutions for your dealer to work with. That's better than most manufacturers, large or small.
xring100
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What was the final verdict did you get it resolved
My apologies for not responding sooner. It took the dealer a while to get to it, and I just got it back this weekend. The dealer said he could not find anything that would be burning the belts. However, I had given him the email from Grasshopper central in Kansas. He replaced the belts, the idler pulley, sheave, and spring. He charged me only for parts, and no labor, and not for the belts, nor for pick up and delivery (it's too wide for my trailer). He said the clutch had some wear, and said it was my call on replacing it. It's a $400 part, but I have been so frustrated, I told him to replace that as well so that everything in the back was new. He said that they looked at the deck to see if there was any resistance downstream that could be the problem and found nothing.
I used it 2d ago for the first time, and it worked perfectly. I was in some 8d old grass growth and had no problem at all. I have to say it makes me nervous that they did not identify a problem, but so far so good. I have decided that anything more than 8-9d of growth I will try to get to with my bush hog. I don't quite trust the mower at this point, but it is working well, and I feel like the dealer treated me fairly. I feel a little bit like when I've had a boat engine that is unreliable - even after repair I'm nervous about going too far from shore...
I'll repost in a few weeks with another update as I get braver with it.
I used it 2d ago for the first time, and it worked perfectly. I was in some 8d old grass growth and had no problem at all. I have to say it makes me nervous that they did not identify a problem, but so far so good. I have decided that anything more than 8-9d of growth I will try to get to with my bush hog. I don't quite trust the mower at this point, but it is working well, and I feel like the dealer treated me fairly. I feel a little bit like when I've had a boat engine that is unreliable - even after repair I'm nervous about going too far from shore...
I'll repost in a few weeks with another update as I get braver with it.
IXLR8
Veteran Member
Thanks for the update, I was curious as well. How does the belt sit in the idler pulley now? How stretched is the tension spring?
