dbear
Gold Member
Bob, I'm not confused in least about ergonomic vs electronic. I fully believe marketing people are. Almost all of those do-dads are billed as making it easier, more comfortable and safer to operate - aka ergonomics.
Farmtrac - For real?
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Bob_Skurka
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OK well then the marketing people can be blamed for many things. However, per this discussion about the ergonomics of the Farmtrac tractors, never once was I referring to anything to do with electronic tom-foolery. All my issues reside with the physical shape and/or placement, or mis-placement of levers, controls, etc.dbear said:
dbear
Gold Member
And again, I maintain that much of your displeasure with control location is subjective. Also, I don't believe you ever answered my question regard which model(s) you were referring to, utility or compact.
Face it, we're just not gonna agree on this...
Face it, we're just not gonna agree on this...
Bob_Skurka
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27 to 40hp Compacts. The utilities would probably have similar issues as some of those are based on 1980's Ford designs and in the 80's the concept of ergonomics never made it to the tractor designs.
As for agreeing, we don't have to. The facts speak for themselves and as has been pointed out by others, ergonomics are proven to make things more comfortable, safer, easier to use, and they are quantifiable.
As for agreeing, we don't have to. The facts speak for themselves and as has been pointed out by others, ergonomics are proven to make things more comfortable, safer, easier to use, and they are quantifiable.
dbear
Gold Member
Bob, I agree ergonomics are important - just one look at say a 9N and the same era JD, AC, or IH (all rear mount machines) and one can easily say the 9N is a better ergonomic design. Maybe this why I don’t mind what you would call excessive lever throw.
However, what I don't agree on is that ergonomics are black and white. Using your computer workstation example, and according to OSHA's website (OSHA Ergonomic Solutions: Computer Workstations eTool - Components - Monitors, there are gray areas with regard to said workstation layout. Distance should be 20" to 40" from eyes with the top of the monitor at operator eye level (this, due to range of individual height, leaves a lot of wiggle room). Wrists should be in-line with forearms which should be close to the body. Again, individual body shapes and sizes dictate that there be a wide range of acceptable optimum ergonomic positions.
Hence my arguments that regardless of whether we're talking computers, tractors, cars, or toasters:
A. Ergonomics, outside of the upper and lower limits, is not black and white, but largely gray due to operator physique.
B. Because of "A", fine tuning operator position and comfort ergonomically is a highly subjective-based decision directly dependent upon said operator's physical dimensions.
However, what I don't agree on is that ergonomics are black and white. Using your computer workstation example, and according to OSHA's website (OSHA Ergonomic Solutions: Computer Workstations eTool - Components - Monitors, there are gray areas with regard to said workstation layout. Distance should be 20" to 40" from eyes with the top of the monitor at operator eye level (this, due to range of individual height, leaves a lot of wiggle room). Wrists should be in-line with forearms which should be close to the body. Again, individual body shapes and sizes dictate that there be a wide range of acceptable optimum ergonomic positions.
Hence my arguments that regardless of whether we're talking computers, tractors, cars, or toasters:
A. Ergonomics, outside of the upper and lower limits, is not black and white, but largely gray due to operator physique.
B. Because of "A", fine tuning operator position and comfort ergonomically is a highly subjective-based decision directly dependent upon said operator's physical dimensions.
MossRoad
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Sure a short person and a tall person are not going to fit like an average person. But if the movement to reach for an out of place control is no good for anyone of any size, that is pretty black and white. If you constantly have to reach for something that could be put closer, that is not a good design.
At my employer, we have adjustable keyboard trays, mouse trays, chairs, monitor stands and even adjustable desks (the entire desk top moves up, down and tilts) for the professional typists. All so that they can get the proper arangement for their different sized bodies. Many folks like to reach for the mouse to do a task that a simple keyboard shortcut is in place for and would be faster and avoid that reach. They don't see it as a big deal. Until you add up that they could be saving hundreds of arm motions an hour, thousands a day, hundreds of thousands per year and millions over the span of a career. Could be the difference between a happy retirement or a lifetime of pain.
At my employer, we have adjustable keyboard trays, mouse trays, chairs, monitor stands and even adjustable desks (the entire desk top moves up, down and tilts) for the professional typists. All so that they can get the proper arangement for their different sized bodies. Many folks like to reach for the mouse to do a task that a simple keyboard shortcut is in place for and would be faster and avoid that reach. They don't see it as a big deal. Until you add up that they could be saving hundreds of arm motions an hour, thousands a day, hundreds of thousands per year and millions over the span of a career. Could be the difference between a happy retirement or a lifetime of pain.
KrumpsBrother
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Bob_Skurka said:
Have you actually ever seen one of the 6 and 7 series utility tractors? Ever sat on one? I would suggest you go to your nearest Farmtrac dealer before you make these blanket statements.
KB
Bob_Skurka
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Have you actually made a constructive post yet? I would suggest that before you criticize other people you build up your own reputation by contributing actual information rather than attempting to tear down other folks.KrumpsBrother said:
Charolais
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Bob_Skurka. Speaking of reputation. With your last post you're doing wonders with yours or building a new one. I could be wrong but I think that was uncalled for. He asked two questions of you. Got no answer to either.
Just answer his questions since you're the expert here. And chillout before you do.
Just answer his questions since you're the expert here. And chillout before you do.
Greetings,
This is my first post. I am a semi-old guy with a brand new Farmtrac 360 TLB. Don't know "nuthin" bout no ergonomics, and my Ph.D. is a long way from having anything to do with agriculture, but I did grow up in Kansas in the Fifties, and I have steered a few tractors around those flat fields. While this one isn't perfect, it beats the wheel weights off of anything I used from AC/JD/Case, etc etc. back in the old days.
It's almost like driving my RX300 around the lower pasture, but with a little more pulling power and better four wheel drive. Then again, it doesn't have heated seats either.
Were I designing this machine, I would put the hydro controls for the FEL a little lower on the right and the shuttle shifter a little higher, and for we six foot and over guys, provide a little more room for the legs. But these are minor points. It is such a pleasure to use and drive, I can overlook these flaws.
Then again, I've only logged 11 hours on it, but I have moved several tons of dirt and rocks making a hillside pad for my soon-to-be-delivered tractor shed, and every hour was a blast. If only my grandson were there to help with his Bob the Builder rigs.
I looked at JD and Mahindra. It finally boiled down to a local dealer with a long history, great service and good parts room, and he was a real gentleman...with a great no interest three year financing deal. How can you beat that with 5.25 percent CD's available at your local bank?
No regrets with this machine so far. Well, except for nearly breaking up the 42 year marriage, but once I plant some trees, those troubled waters should subside as well.
This forum is great and I appreciate all the comments and insights. Hope I can provide some insight as I work with the FT in the years to come.
It would be great to have our own Farmtrac forum. Any takers?
This is my first post. I am a semi-old guy with a brand new Farmtrac 360 TLB. Don't know "nuthin" bout no ergonomics, and my Ph.D. is a long way from having anything to do with agriculture, but I did grow up in Kansas in the Fifties, and I have steered a few tractors around those flat fields. While this one isn't perfect, it beats the wheel weights off of anything I used from AC/JD/Case, etc etc. back in the old days.
It's almost like driving my RX300 around the lower pasture, but with a little more pulling power and better four wheel drive. Then again, it doesn't have heated seats either.
Were I designing this machine, I would put the hydro controls for the FEL a little lower on the right and the shuttle shifter a little higher, and for we six foot and over guys, provide a little more room for the legs. But these are minor points. It is such a pleasure to use and drive, I can overlook these flaws.
Then again, I've only logged 11 hours on it, but I have moved several tons of dirt and rocks making a hillside pad for my soon-to-be-delivered tractor shed, and every hour was a blast. If only my grandson were there to help with his Bob the Builder rigs.
I looked at JD and Mahindra. It finally boiled down to a local dealer with a long history, great service and good parts room, and he was a real gentleman...with a great no interest three year financing deal. How can you beat that with 5.25 percent CD's available at your local bank?
No regrets with this machine so far. Well, except for nearly breaking up the 42 year marriage, but once I plant some trees, those troubled waters should subside as well.
This forum is great and I appreciate all the comments and insights. Hope I can provide some insight as I work with the FT in the years to come.
It would be great to have our own Farmtrac forum. Any takers?