Farmtrac - For real?

[Slacker]

Tastes great......
Less filling......

Hmmm, I see a pattern. []
Have a good safe weekend everyone. Hope everyone gets some seat time in.
Don't forget to grease any exposed cylinders before winter storage and never use armor-all the seat! []

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I still don't see how you guys can say that ergonomics are black and white. People are different sizes and shapes . . . If there is any clear-cut "fact" regarding ergonomics, that's it; pure and simple.

Tastes great......
Less filling......

Hmmm, I see a pattern.

No secret, but I disagree.

Well short or tall, fat or skinny, if working a lever requires you to reach under your leg, then that is a simply clear cut fact, and that would be bad ergonomics.

Again, fat, tall, short, skinny, if the the loader control blocks the ingress/egress to/from the right of the tractor, that too is fact, and that would be bad ergonomics.

Front end loaders have been discussed by MossRoad and how his view of his front bucket. Most people who have tractors swear their loader is great. But I have to tell you, if you use one with a better view of the material is it almost like a religious experience. I've got many hours of use on many brands of fork lifts and other types of equipment lifting loads and have used many brands of tractors to lift loads. I have to tell you, tractors are horrible for FEL work. They are slow, offer low visibility, and are not very manuverable. All 3 of those things are facts. So anything that can be done to improve those things will improve the ergonomics, and that is not grey area. In commerical applications, where money is measured in time & productivity, you see machines that are far better at lifting than the tractors we use. My best forklift is articulated just like MossRoad's Power Trac. It fits down narrow aisles and maneuvers far better than my rigid forklifts. My rigid forklifts are far superior to any tractor. Again that is all fact. So when it comes to tractor FELs there are a lot of design issues we can look at and compare and while it might be opinion that one brand is better than another, it is fact that more visibility = faster use, safer use, more efficient use . . . and I think it is opinion that those facts are "better" but it is also hard to dispute.

Now there are other NON-ergonomic issues that also can be used to differentiate between tractors, some of those would include things like having exposes hoses that project up over the top of the hood that a branch can snag. Or a bucket without a toplip that is reinforced with a tube or box steel that runs from side to side. Or a few dozen other issues that we can discuss.

I've posted the attached photo before. It shows 2 of my tractors in my driveway. Both loaders have similar specs. Which do you think is safer, easier, faster to use?

 

[dbear]

Can't tell if the thin-skinned comments were aimed at me or not, but let me say I'm trying to be hostile and I sincerely hope I'm not coming across that way. I currently don't own any tractor other than my lawn mower, so I have no "vested" interest; just my opinions.

I guess I'm just a little different. I look at control placement as a challenge - how can I efficiently and safely operate this machine as it sits?

I was raised on older Ford tractors from a 9N to a 9600 (used to sit on my mom's lap and steer starting when I was 5), and I don't recall ergonomics being an issue. I simply adapted myself to whichever machine I happened to operating that day.

Case in point, we had both a 5100 and 5200. The hydraulic valve for both is located under the seat. The 5100 had levers that just barely extended out from under the right side of the seat (one was slightly longer than the other); the 5200 had linkage that brought the levers through some sheet metal up next to the 3pt control lever (again one being slightly longer than the other). I always knew which lever I had, never had any issue operating either of these systems, nor do I think that, for me, one was ergonomically better than the other. That's just the way they were. Jumping ahead in models and years, both the 7700 and 9600 had all controls located in consoles to the right of the operator.

I do have to admit now that not having the gear shift levers between your legs is nicer, but again I never considered one style inherently better, nor safer than the other. Again, that's just the way they were. It's up to the operator to ensure safety.

I believe that function dictates form. That's why you have to look over your right shoulder a lot when running any 3pt or towed implement.

Tastes great...

 

[MossRoad]

I still don't see how you guys can say that ergonomics are black and white. People are different sizes and shapes. And although I'm repeating myself, what you find comfortable, I may not. If there is any clear-cut "fact" regarding ergonomics, that's it; pure and simple. All the rest is gray.

Just because you find something comfortable doesn't mean it is good for you. Take slouching in a chair, for instance. It sure feels good until you get up after a few hours of it. Then your back is stuck in that position. Or incorrect computer keyboard height, or mouse placement and its affects on your shoulder, wrists and fingers. All that stuff is well documented ergonomics, so it really is pretty black and white. Same measurable data applies to tractors, trucks, cars, any equipment, really.

 

[MossRoad]

No thinned skinned comments were aimed at anybody. I just fired that out there shotgun-like to see what I'd hit.

....I believe that function dictates form. That's why you have to look over your right shoulder a lot when running any 3pt or towed implement....

That's why there are so many hunched over old farmers. Too many years of hard work behind un-ergonomic machinery.

That's also why I find the Power Trac design more ergonomic. All the implements are out front where you can see them. Of course, that doesn't work for plowing dirt, too well, so get some mirrors for plowing dirt. But for the majority of home owner projects, it is a superior design.

 

[shvl73]

if the the loader control blocks the ingress/egress to/from the right of the tractor, that too is fact, and that would be bad ergonomics.

On my HST tractor, the loader controls do not block access from the right however there is no step on the right. When I inquired about adding a step on the right, I was told it wasn't recommended due to the forward/reverse pedal locations would make mounting or dismounting on the right dangerous when the engine was running. Since then, I frequently get off the tractor when its running (picking up rocks when tilling,etc...) but have made it habit to always do so from the left (running or not).

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I was told it wasn't recommended due to the forward/reverse pedal locations would make mounting or dismounting on the right dangerous when the engine was running..

Certainly depending on the size of the tractor, the floor layout, etc it might be an issue (when the tractor is running) but that would largely be a tractor specific issue. For example, within any given brand there may be several floor layouts for the various size machines. Still, the fact is you can exit the right of the tractor should you choose to or, worse yet, should you need to in an emergency.

. . .incorrect computer keyboard height, or mouse placement and its affects on your shoulder, wrists and fingers. All that stuff is well documented ergonomics, so it really is pretty black and white. Same measurable data applies to tractors, trucks, cars, any equipment, really.

Exactly.

I do have to admit now that not having the gear shift levers between your legs is nicer, but again I never considered one style inherently better, nor safer than the other. Again, that's just the way they were. It's up to the operator to ensure safety.

Just as you admit that the gear shift between your legs is not ideal, I would suggest you'd be willing to admit that other things are also better or worse.

As to safety, the key to good ergonomic design is that it allows the operator to focus on the job and not have to focus on 10 other things.

The point with tractors is to keep the operator working safer by using smart design (not necessarily whiz bang gimmicks). For example, many fenders have 2, 3 or even 4 levers on them to control various functions. Good ergonomic design would be to make sure the operator could easily reach all of them, and could operate them without leaning, across their full sweep of movement. Better ergonomic design would be to color code them so the operator would know at a quick glance by color what lever was what. Even better design would have the levers with colored handles AND different shapes so you could FEEL or SEE the difference. Those little things make it easier, more efficient and safer to operate the machine.

 

[dbear]

Just realized I left out the word "not" from my above post. Should read that I'm NOT trying to be hostile...Proof again that spell checkers can't catch everything...

I guess I'm not expressing myself well here. The point I was trying to make is just because a workstation might be better ergonomically designed doesn't inherently make it more efficient. A lot of that comes down to the individual.

Granted I never did any actual scientific studies, but I'd be willing to bet I was as just as productive on the 5100 as I was on the 5200, or even the 7700. Never made a difference to me where controls were located; I always knew where they were. Reaching over, or down is still reaching and no control was ever that far away as to require leaning or stooping way over to get a hold on them.

Now how all this relates to the FarmTrac 270, I'm not 100% certain, except to say that, pending a more thorough seat-of-the-pants test, for me, I firmly believe it would work as well as, and be just as comfortable as any of its more well known cousins. Guess I haven't been convinced of the need for, not to mention the added cost of, many of the electronic "refinements" manufacturers add nowadays. Seems I’ve heard plently of stories about problems with those electronics. For what I would use a tractor for, I just feel they wouldn’t be that big of an advantage to justify that cost. Hey, I’m cheap. What else can I say?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Guess I haven't been convinced of the need for, not to mention the added cost of, many of the electronic "refinements" manufacturers add nowadays.

I think a lot of people are confused about ergonomics. It has NOTHING to do with 'electronics' and I will totally agree that you don't need electronics on tractors. None of mine have them except for one that has an electronic hour meter. Other than that, mine all have simple analog gauges. Ergonomics is about the placement and the design and the use of the controls. It is directly related to industrial design and has been proven in office and industry setting to improve productivity, comfort, and safety.

Again, ergonomics is NOT electronic do-dads or any other whiz-bang things that get added to some tractors.

 

[MossRoad]

I think a lot of people are confused about ergonomics. It has NOTHING to do with 'electronics' and I will totally agree that you don't need electronics on tractors. None of mine have them except for one that has an electronic hour meter. Other than that, mine all have simple analog gauges. Ergonomics is about the placement and the design and the use of the controls. It is directly related to industrial design and has been proven in office and industry setting to improve productivity, comfort, and safety.

Again, ergonomics is NOT electronic do-dads or any other whiz-bang things that get added to some tractors.

Gauges? You have gauges?