Farmtrac - For real?
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Bob_Skurka
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Which observation was overstated?NewToy said:
Actually it comes from experience on many different brands and different types of machines. When you use a well designed machine and then you operate one that is not designed as well, whether those be tractors, forklifts, or snowmobiles, the good designs stand out as clearly obvious and superior.NewToy said:
Dweeks
Bronze Member
I didnt buy a JD, I bought a Kubota. Enjoy your timex.
I guess the whole thing boils down to etiquitte. It's not nice to come into the "other" forum and pick at all the inferior machines. If that makes you feel better about your machine selection, then feel free. I feel when you call something to be of "inferior" design that is overstated. It may be somewhat antiquated, but, inferior? Like I said before,IMHO it all boils down to ETIQUITTE.Bob_Skurka said:
John
Bob_Skurka
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John, please go back and read the very first page of posts. You will notice that originator of the thread asked quesitons regarding comparisions with other brands. The issue you bring up of etiquitte has been discussed before, and it has been stated by the mods that there are no borders or walls and that each forum is open to everyone. The goal is to be factual and on target. Factual information when compared to other factual information, and then looked at objectively, does not make the statements overstated. The original poster asked for comparisions, but when the discussion became more in depth you think people are violating some sort of imaginary rules of etiquitte? OK. Sure.NewToy said:
Webster's dictionary defines antiquted as obsolete. Obsolete is defined as out-of-date and behind the times by the very same dictionary. How can something that is antiquated/obsolete not be inferior when compared to something that is modern and easier to operate? If you want to call your Farmtrac antiquted that is fine with me, in fact, I agree with you, at least as the topic is related to layout and ergonomics. I would not say that is true when related to the engine, drivetrain, etc.NewToy said:
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citytransplant
Silver Member
Batteries, bananas, Rolex, Timex. I have been attempting to separate the wheat posts from the chaff posts (admittedly, I am responsible for one or two) here in an effort to genuinely learn from those more experienced than me, where my machine may fall short. In doing so, I have wandered into many associated threads that helped me learn about my machine in particular and tractors in general. One such post that I stumbled upon this morning after doing a search on “throw levers” is linked below. An especially interesting and thoughtful post in this thread is post #6 by Bob S.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...best-tractor-list.html?highlight=throw+levers
But I digress. Bob wrote earlier in this thread… "none of it changes any of the observations made about the 20-year-old ergonomic designs, long throw levers, loader controls blocking the right side of the tractor…"
Bob or anyone, can you please elaborate a bit more on “long throw levers?” Are you referring to 3PH control levers? Obviously, based on my search above and a Google search, I did make a diligent effort on my own to understand what you may be referring to but came up empty.
Thanks in advance.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...best-tractor-list.html?highlight=throw+levers
But I digress. Bob wrote earlier in this thread… "none of it changes any of the observations made about the 20-year-old ergonomic designs, long throw levers, loader controls blocking the right side of the tractor…"
Bob or anyone, can you please elaborate a bit more on “long throw levers?” Are you referring to 3PH control levers? Obviously, based on my search above and a Google search, I did make a diligent effort on my own to understand what you may be referring to but came up empty.
Thanks in advance.
KrumpsBrother
Silver Member
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- CenTex
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- Farmtrac 675DTC/Kubota B7800/BCS 2Wheel with ACME 6.5hp
Citytransplant, just agree with Bob and maybe he'll go away. Then again, hey Bob, what tractor do you have? Let's take a look at it's design Mr. perfect.
KB
KB
dbear
Gold Member
I told myself I wasn't gonna get into this mess of a discussion, but here goes...
Dictionary. com defines obsolete as:
Adjective:
1. no longer in general use; fallen into disuse: an obsolete expression.
2. of a discarded or outmoded type; out of date: an obsolete battleship.
3. (of a linguistic form) no longer in use, esp., out of use for at least the past century. Compare archaic.
4. effaced by wearing down or away.
5. Biology. imperfectly developed or rudimentary in comparison with the corresponding character in other individuals, as of the opposite sex or of a related species.
Verb: (used with object)
6. to make obsolete by replacing with something newer or better; antiquate: Automation has obsoleted many factory workers.
Bob, you have stated you feel the FarmTrac is, at least an antiquated design, and therfore obsolete. Are you referring to the utility or the compact line, or both?
I would agree the utility models are of older Ford origin (x000 series), but I would disagree that inherently makes them, nor their owner/operator less able to perform as their more modern brethren, and most definitely does not make them obsolete! If that were true, there would be a whole mess of farmers out there unable to do their jobs.
Also, the CUTs, as you are probably aware, are made by LS (formerly LG) of Korea. I think they are the same manufacturer of Century (Zetor), Branson, and Montana. Looking at these machines, I find them to quite modern in appearance and convenience, no less so than Kubota, JD, NH, or MF.
It also strikes me that much of what is being argued about here is of a subjective nature, and therefore, cannot be categorized into black and white. Things like control lever throw length fall under the umbrella of ergonomics. Granted there is probably some common ground here, but often what one may find to comfortable, another may find unacceptable.
When shopping for something like this, I prefer to compare more objective items first, such as engine & PTO HP, transmission type & #gears, and hydraulic pump capacity first. Then I move on to the gut stuff, like dealer comfort level and seat-of-the-pants test.
And it's because of my gut tests that I will most likely never own a Kubota. I have no doubt they make a good product, but I can't stand either of my local dealers. They are both arrogant SOBs who treat you like you're an ignorant, backwoods hayseed that has never seen, let alone use, an indoor toilet, and that they're doing you a big favor by taking time out of their busy schedules to stoop to your level and talk to you. So until either they wise up, or the dealerships change hands, I'll continue to take my money elsewhere...
Dictionary. com defines obsolete as:
Adjective:
1. no longer in general use; fallen into disuse: an obsolete expression.
2. of a discarded or outmoded type; out of date: an obsolete battleship.
3. (of a linguistic form) no longer in use, esp., out of use for at least the past century. Compare archaic.
4. effaced by wearing down or away.
5. Biology. imperfectly developed or rudimentary in comparison with the corresponding character in other individuals, as of the opposite sex or of a related species.
Verb: (used with object)
6. to make obsolete by replacing with something newer or better; antiquate: Automation has obsoleted many factory workers.
Bob, you have stated you feel the FarmTrac is, at least an antiquated design, and therfore obsolete. Are you referring to the utility or the compact line, or both?
I would agree the utility models are of older Ford origin (x000 series), but I would disagree that inherently makes them, nor their owner/operator less able to perform as their more modern brethren, and most definitely does not make them obsolete! If that were true, there would be a whole mess of farmers out there unable to do their jobs.
Also, the CUTs, as you are probably aware, are made by LS (formerly LG) of Korea. I think they are the same manufacturer of Century (Zetor), Branson, and Montana. Looking at these machines, I find them to quite modern in appearance and convenience, no less so than Kubota, JD, NH, or MF.
It also strikes me that much of what is being argued about here is of a subjective nature, and therefore, cannot be categorized into black and white. Things like control lever throw length fall under the umbrella of ergonomics. Granted there is probably some common ground here, but often what one may find to comfortable, another may find unacceptable.
When shopping for something like this, I prefer to compare more objective items first, such as engine & PTO HP, transmission type & #gears, and hydraulic pump capacity first. Then I move on to the gut stuff, like dealer comfort level and seat-of-the-pants test.
And it's because of my gut tests that I will most likely never own a Kubota. I have no doubt they make a good product, but I can't stand either of my local dealers. They are both arrogant SOBs who treat you like you're an ignorant, backwoods hayseed that has never seen, let alone use, an indoor toilet, and that they're doing you a big favor by taking time out of their busy schedules to stoop to your level and talk to you. So until either they wise up, or the dealerships change hands, I'll continue to take my money elsewhere...
Bob_Skurka
Super Member
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- Jul 1, 2003
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- 7,615
Actually it was NewToy who said they were antiquated. Webster's Dictionary said that means obsolete.
I pointed out the ergonomics as being inferior to modern tractors. At least 2 dealers agreed (at least in part) with me. What happened after that is my words have been twisted every which way possible and hard feelings have obviously developed.
I was simply trying to point out some differences, differences that do in fact exist. I have not been very critical of the brand, nor have I been very complimentary of the brand. But some folks seem to want to read into my statements far more than seems to exist.
BTW, your experience at your Kubota dealerships is very much like my experience at my local JD dealer. Fact of the matter is that no matter what I think about the dealership, the tractors are well laid out machines. I may never own a JD tractor but it is nice to see that they have different shaped levers on their controls so you don't have to take your eye off your implement to adjust it, you can tell by feel that you have the correct lever and that you are not going to disengage the 4wd or engage something else when you want to simply adjust your 3pt. There are dozens of very thoughtful design features on some of the newer JDs that make for a safer, more productive, easier and therefore more efficient operation. And by the way, I am often considered one who bashes JD by people who misunderstand my comments.
I pointed out the ergonomics as being inferior to modern tractors. At least 2 dealers agreed (at least in part) with me. What happened after that is my words have been twisted every which way possible and hard feelings have obviously developed.
I was simply trying to point out some differences, differences that do in fact exist. I have not been very critical of the brand, nor have I been very complimentary of the brand. But some folks seem to want to read into my statements far more than seems to exist.
BTW, your experience at your Kubota dealerships is very much like my experience at my local JD dealer. Fact of the matter is that no matter what I think about the dealership, the tractors are well laid out machines. I may never own a JD tractor but it is nice to see that they have different shaped levers on their controls so you don't have to take your eye off your implement to adjust it, you can tell by feel that you have the correct lever and that you are not going to disengage the 4wd or engage something else when you want to simply adjust your 3pt. There are dozens of very thoughtful design features on some of the newer JDs that make for a safer, more productive, easier and therefore more efficient operation. And by the way, I am often considered one who bashes JD by people who misunderstand my comments.